What to do about Water? tankage, requirements, watermakers.... etc.

[Fortis]

We use a flexible Turtle tank for the under-cockpit diesel tank (that way I can still get access to the stern gland and prop shaft, I just pump the fuel into a second (spare) flexi tank that we could lay out on the sole for the duration of the proceedure. Never had to do it yet, but the flexu tank is indeed very tough and serves us well as the big cruising tank.
We also have a 70litre (I think) Turtle flexi water bladder. It lives under the V berth. There is also a rigid stainless tank of about 50 litres...but it may well be not long for this world. It seems to be getting in the way of all my layout plans and it is a very flat but vertical tank. so lots of weight up top when full.


The thing that we came up with that actually works brilliantly well for us is that we went to a juice bottling factory and bought some empty, never used, 3.5litre juice bottles with the rectangular profile and the floppy handles. made out of PET plastic.

We have about 40 of them (though have not needed them all at once...yet). They allow us to first and foremost keep really good track of our water usage, really knock the potential for contamination (except form the original filling tap) on the head and to use the bottles as space filler around other goods that need storage. It lets us carry the weight very low and we basically just open the one or two a day we need.

I figure that as a worst case scenario, there is a few hundred kilos of bouyancy represented by the empties too.

Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

I like the idea of lots of smaller bottles—two gallons or so in size.  Just remember that water should be stored in the dark, as it will stay fresh longer that way.

[Captain Smollett]

Just remember that water should be stored in the dark, as it will stay fresh longer that way.

Anybody use water purification agents in their tank water?

When we have stored water for long term around the house (storm prep, etc), we used iodine crystals sold for treating water while backpacking.  It does add an unpleasant flavor, but the bad buggies cannot grow in it.  Adding a flavoring such as kool aid when time to drink helps with the taste issue.

[AdriftAtSea]

I've found that water that has been treated with a Brita filter seems to stay fresh for longer than water not treated that way.  Whether it is from the anti-bacterial properties of the silver compounds used in the filter, or something else, I can't say.  But I generally try to fill my bottles with Brita treated water.  This also gets rid of alot of the unpleasant taste, chemicals, and other things that might be in the water. 

[Sonnie]

Try an inline filter (available at west marine for about 30 bucks). They have active charcoal and coconut fibers and all kind sof other crazy stuff to filter out unpleasant tastes and bad stuff. The same tank of water has been used all summer and it tastes as fresh as any evian! I've also heard of adding a bit of bleach to your tank, that seems a little scary to me... Anyone heard of these rumors that plastic containers shouldn't be reused? A conspiracy that the bottled water companies are plotting so that you keep buying fresh bottles of water?

Cheers,
Sonnie

[Zen]

What I hear it is only some plastic containers, not all. The Thin walled clear ones should not be re-used, but the blue thick ones are ok as are the heavy-duty white ones...so I hear.

And for real not left in the sun and re-used.

Same as many plastics should not be used in the microwave.

As for the beach...survival tactics say add a bit of beach, VERY SMALL amount. if you are unsure about the water. I think it is pure clorox type not the blue or colored stuff

[Fortis]

I think you mean BLEACH. Adding some beach to your drinking water just means you need to strain the sand (and various crustaceans) through your teeth.


I have found that the PET clear plastic juice bottles we use are still fine after three years and have not broken down at all. We do not leave them in the sun or expose them to excessive heat...we also do not put them through the microwave. Not one has ever leaked, though I imagine it is the seals and threads of the caps that would fail first) .


Alex.

[Captain Smollett]

Some of the commercial water purifiers contain the same 'active' ingredient as 'bleach.'  The trick is concentration.  You don't want to drink 'pure bleach' (which is mostly water anyway), but if it is diluted properly, it will kill that bad stuff but not the guys drinking the water.

I use iodine as a purification agent, but I've never used it on board; we have no usable on-board tankage on the present boat.  Filtering and charcoal are good for particulates and organic impurities, but do NOTHING to kill biologic agents in the water.  That is what bleach or iodine do.  Just like with bleach, you don't dump pure iodine in the water.

That way it works is the bottle comes with some iodine crystals in it.  You add water until the bottle is full.  There is a temperature scale on the side of the bottle that is keyed to a "Number of Capfuls Per Quart" of water to be treated.  So, you are diluting a saturated solution by about 1-2 teaspoons to a quart or so.

The iodine does 'discolor' the water some and gives it a taste.  Using Kool-Aid or other drink mix helps with the taste aspect.  We have stored 10+ gallons of water in small (2 quart) bottles for 4-5 years at a time with nothing unpleasant growing in the bottle.

[AdriftAtSea]

Just remember two things... Chlorine bleach is only effective for a short time after adding it to the water IIRC.  Also, Iodine based disinfecting compounds are not very effective on some of the salt-water based organisms...as the sea has plenty of iodine-based compounds in it.

[Captain Smollett]

Who is trying to disinfect salt water for drinking?

[s/v Faith]

Generally not such a great idea......  :P



;D

[AdriftAtSea]

Who is trying to disinfect salt water for drinking?

I'm just saying that on a salt-water boat, you may have gotten some salt water into the fresh water tanks, and that the beasties in the water may not get killed by iodine.  On my friend's boat, the deck fill leaks a bit, so if he gets much water in the cockpit, where the deck fill for the water tank is located, he occassionally gets some salt water contamination.  He's re-doing the tank fills this winter.

[oded kishony]

What is the consensus about the use of watermakers? Are they reliable enough to use as supplements to the boat's normal supply? As an emergency supply? I understand that some watermakers are operated manually and don't require electricity. I have a video of 'Jean de Sud' a solo circumnavigation in an Alberg 30. ...Great video by the way....He is shown loading his boat with about a ton of provisions for the last leg of his voyage. But he made very few stops. I think a total of 3 or 4. At one point of his voyage he nearly ran out of water.

Oded

[Captain Smollett]

My personal view about watermakers are that they are not worth the electricity or the expense - except PERHAPS the manual kind for a lifeboat.  YMMV and this is one of those things that each person will decide for themselves.  To me, a RO water maker is not a KISS tool.

I've been noodling around with solar still design ideas suitable for using aboard.  In a pinch, something like this CAN keep you alive.  Beyond that, I go with KR's comment of gathering rain and, well, simply carrying enough water.

[Fortis]

The hand pumped ones are a survival situation only tool, at this stage of development. Depending on which latitudes (temps) you are at, it is quite possible that you will sweat more then you make...

the tow behind unit seems to be a good bet in terms of no-power watermakers...but amongst various other doubts and hesitations to be had (like the fact that you have $2500 of "thing" towing along like a fishing lure 40 feet behind your boat, attached by a rubber hose.) an issue with the company that makes them seems to be that they have no interest at all in servicing or even dealing with their customers.

Seems that the people that designed the unit and set up the company got bought out by "investors" who have neither clue nor interest and thus getting spare parts, or on occassion the unit that you actually paid for, is an excercise in frustration. Pity, really.

Solar stills are a usefull survival device, though the unit that I have my eye on, that is in the final stages of development locally, is a watermaker that runs off a pulley wheel to the engine/prop shaft. This means you can set the engine to nuetral and the boat moving through the water will turn the prop and generate a small amount of water as you sail. And of course, whenever you fire up the engine to get anywhere, you will make fairly decent quantities of drinking water (since most yacht engines never run at anything like their intended torque settings, this actually puts a little more pressure on a deisel engine and makes it work "better".

You still have all the hassles of filters and chem cassettes though...


Alex.

[CharlieJ]

Many cruisers on larger boats seem to be going to watermakers, and reducing water capacity in tankage. The first part seems fine, but reducing tankage on a vayaging boat seems fool hardy to me. To do so means that you are relying on something mechanical to continue functioning to KEEP YOU ALIVE!!! Not me brudder!! If I'm gonna sail on passage, I'm gonna have enough water on board PLUS a safety margin, or I AIN"T GOIN"!!!

To do otherwise just seems stupid to me.

Now there IS the fact that many many "Cruisers" never go more than a day or two on any passage, so smaller tankage would be a safe setup. But for longer ones, no way Jose!! 

[Oldrig]

Cruisers who are buying into the current big-boat, lots-of-power-consuming-gadgets concept of cruising are installing watermakers, but here's a gadget that might fit better in with this board's KISS principle. (No, I don't have any financial interest in the product.)

At the Annapolis Boat Show earlier this month I saw a product called Sea-Pack (www.sea-pack.com), which is a $99.95 emergency watermaker that relies on osmosis, rather than reverse osmosis. The device is very simple: an inner plastic bag separated from an outer bag by an osmotic membrane.

You put a special sugar solution into the inner bag and fill the outer bag with sea water. Osmosis pulls the fresh water from the outer to the inner bag--producing a drinkable solution that's also high in sugar and electrolytes. I tasted it, and it isn't bad -- a bit like a diluted sports drink.

No, this isn't a substitute for packing water, but it would be a great addition to a ditch bag or life-raft cannister.

Hope I'm not putting a plug for this why-didn't-I-think-of-this product into the wrong thread.

--Joe

<fixed link so it point to correct website and not to an spam page-Dougcan>

[AdriftAtSea]

I think that a manual water maker may be a good idea...but they do require a fair amount of regular maintenance, especially once the membrane is in use, and no longer "pickled".   

Personally, I think packing a dozen extra water bottles, to have an extended surplus is probably a better idea, and probably less expensive and less work in the long run. 

I've done some informal testing with tap water that has been re-bottled after being processed with a water treatment filter, and think that the shelf life is fairly decent, provided the bottles were properly cleaned and treated before being filled.  I prefer the heavier clear plastic bottles, rather than the thinner kind for long-term water storage.  Gatorade bottles seem to work quite well, and seem to be very durable.

[CharlieJ]

we also carry 5 to 10 extra gallons of water in one gallon and one half gallon jugs. The built in tanks on Tehani total 38 gallons.

Laura uses the one gallon jugs as trim ballast to move around as we consume food, etc. They seldom actually get used, except towards the end of a cruise when we really don't need a back up any longer.

We found some very heavy pale blue jugs at the local grocery store that are really nice- but the lids suck. They tend to crack easily. She's been buying juices such as Cran berry juice which come in heavy jugs. Those have held up well.

[s/v Faith]

I keep 'just' missing some flexable bladders on Ebay.  My current plan is to use something much larger then I need under the cockpit.  The excess capacity will be inflated with air to pick up some reserve buoyancy.

That is the idea anyway.

  Anyone looking for a PUR-8o?