Bottom paint: Let's talk bottoms

[Toucantook]

The thinnest they have is .015".  I suspect that it might weigh less than bottom paint.

[CapnK]

Might be worth going to one of those places that does the vinyl wrap signs onto cars/vans, and seeing their process for applying the vinyl. It might give you some hints/tips about what would be involved in putting a sheet material onto a curved form.

I'm trying to imagine in me brain just how thick .015 is. It's thin, that's for sure. Should be relatively mould-able. How does it react to a heatgun, might be something to check out.

Tanaara thread does claim great UV resistance, hadn't thought about that...

[Toucantook]

I've discovered that one pound in .015 thickness is 5.6 sq.ft.
For perspective, .015 is about 1/64th of an inch.

[Toucantook]

Here's a site that sells the stuff in .005" thickness, one third of the other, and is adhesive backed! Too easy!! It just depends on if the adhesive will stand up to constant salt water immersion. I'm gonna email these guys to find out. Check 'em out-

http://ptfe-tubes.com/ptfe-sheets-bondable.htm

[Bill NH]

Teflon is one of the main ingredients in Interlux VC-17 bottom paint, which does give a really slick finish on a properly faired bottom.  However, you add fine copper powder to the VC-17 right before applying...  if teflon was sufficient by itself at keeping growth and slime from adhering, I wouldn't think the copper powder would be necessary?  Maybe it covers a broader spectrum of growth than just the teflon surface alone? 

[Toucantook]

I suspect a solid sheet of teflon is a lot more slick than VC-17, which is pretty slick anyway, especially when burnished.
A test panel should tell the definitive tale....

[pamdemonium]

Hey all...wow this topic is lengthy...
Well the sandblasting is completed...much more work than previously anticipated.  The first guy had not a clue and thought that the barrier coat that I had done previously was the "gelcoat"  (I am taking him to court--don't use Les Gunter in Norfolk!).  I had to then move the boat to Deltaville where their sandblater did an excellent job!  It now will dry until--well ...until it is dry, and then I can anticipate fairing and sanding for many weeks, and perhaps some laminate repair too, but I know it will be done right, because..it will be me that is doing it!  After that another barrier coat, and copper paint...so I am all ears as to what is best out there, keep talking!

Pam on the Pamdemonium
1977 Norsea 27
Norfolk, VA

[CharlieJ]

That Deltaville place wouldn't happen to have been Zimmerman Marine would it? Our good friend Rachel works there.

[Delezynski]

Hi Pam, all,

I used a product called CopperPoxy a LONG time ago. It was 10 mil copper balls in an epoxy resin. It not only lasts 10 years (+/-) as a bottom coat, but is also a barrier coat. I was VERY happy with it. It worked on the US West coast and all the way into the Sea of Cortez. It did not stop slime and soft growth, but did stop all hard growth. If you do a Google search with our last name and CopperPoxy you can read some of the long past stuff we posted. Even written reports by our diver checking and cleaning our hull.

I did not use it the last haulout, and am sad I did not!!! I was worried about buildup. As it turns out, over the 11 years it was on Guenevere, the copper was used up and none of it remained behind. As the product was about 70% copper, that left the epoxy behind that was more like a sponge. When it was pressure washed, even that came off the bottom! So my worry about buildup was unfounded!

My plan is that on our next haul we will pressure wash all of the ablative off and redo the CopperPoxy once more!!!

We found the place on line that sells the metal copper and the epoxy. I will purchase it and mix my own. We still have the instructions that came with the original stuff.

We mixed it up, about a pint at a time, and thinned it, just a bit, with Tulean (sp?). I then painted / troweled  it on. Jill then used a VERY thin foam roller coated with Pam spray cooking oil to smooth it out. Once it is set hard, about 24 hours, you need to go over the bottom with a light sanding to reveal the copper and knock the high spots off of the epoxy.

I know they spray it on down here in Mexico. We  may do that next time.

Another of the great things about it is that no matter how long you have the boat out of the water, it does NOT go bad like a lot of the other bottom paints.

Hope this helps!

Any questions, just ask!

Greg

[AdriftAtSea]

Pam-

If you're going to be doing the barrier coating yourself, I'd recommend you use Interprotect 2000E.  I used it and it is quite easy to use, provided that the temperatures are low enough for it to have a reasonable working time...

I wrote this reply regarding applying Interprotect 2000E on another forum, and thought you might find it useful.

Alternating the colors helps a lot with determining where you've painted, but it is also very useful for helping you coat the areas around the boat stands. For instance:

The first layer is gray, since the gelcoat is white, and you can paint right up to the boat stand pads. Then you paint a layer of white, and leave about a two-inch margin of gray paint around the pads... then paint a layer a gray and leave a four-inch margin around the pads or about two-inches of white and two inches of gray showing...and then finish with a layer of white—with a six-inch margin around the pads—with two inches of gray, two inches of white and two inches of gray.

Then when you move the boat stands, you can fill in the pads and layer the paint accordingly... adding gray to cover the white square left by the pad.. then white to cover the gray square, and so on.

Also, by alternating colors, you can see if someone has sanded through the barrier coat when you're prepping the boat for re-painting. If there's an area that is gray or grayish, they've sanded through at least the outermost layer of barrier coat. If you had all white, you wouldn't be able to tell if they had sanded down through the barrier coat as easily—if you had all gray, you could tell they sanded through the barrier coat...but not if they've sanded into it...

I hope this helps clear things up a bit.

I used a copper-powder/epoxy paint called CopperCoat on my boat last season, and if it is half as good as two of my friends report, I'll be very happy.  One of my friends is on year 14 with it, and another on year 8.

Dan

Hey all...wow this topic is lengthy...
Well the sandblasting is completed...much more work than previously anticipated.  The first guy had not a clue and thought that the barrier coat that I had done previously was the "gelcoat"  (I am taking him to court--don't use Les Gunter in Norfolk!).  I had to then move the boat to Deltaville where their sandblater did an excellent job!  It now will dry until--well ...until it is dry, and then I can anticipate fairing and sanding for many weeks, and perhaps some laminate repair too, but I know it will be done right, because..it will be me that is doing it!  After that another barrier coat, and copper paint...so I am all ears as to what is best out there, keep talking!

Pam on the Pamdemonium
1977 Norsea 27
Norfolk, VA

[s/v Faith]

Dan,

  What did you pay per gallon for that CopperCoat? 

[AdriftAtSea]

It's sold by the liter kit... with about 1 kg of copper powder per liter.  However, I don't remember what I paid for it... unfortunately they didn't have a US distributor, so I had to have it shipped from the UK via air freight.

[s/v Faith]

Thanks,

  If you happen to come across the recepit for it, I would like to know what it cost.  Ebb used a home brew copper on his Ariel, sure looked nice... seems like it cost a couple boat bucks though.....

  Do you keep your boat on in the water?  I thought it was mostly kept on a trailer?  Do the bunks abrade the bottom paint?

[AdriftAtSea]

The trailer is used for winter storage, hauling and launching... and not much else.   The boat stays in a slip during the season.  Last year, after doing all the work, I put the boat in the water in early July, and didn't haul her until early November.  Other than slime, there were just two barnacles on the entire hull, and they came off with pressure spraying.  Compared to the previous year, with an ablative.... it was a huge improvement.

[Delezynski]

I just got an email from Coppercoat. I wanted to see how it adds up. If I could purchase it and not have to make up my own I might feel a bit more at ease. NOT SO NOW! WOW!! :o  :o  :o  :o

We supply Coppercoat in 1-litre units with each unit being sufficient to
fully treat 4 square metres to a finish (i.e. with all the necessary coats).
Therefore, on the assumption that your Nor'Sea 27 has an underwater area of approximately 28 square metres (a figure that would need to be confirmed before finalizing any order) I recommend that you have 7 litres in total for a complete and long lasting treatment.

At the current export rate of GBP 65 (approximately USD 127) per litre such
a 7-litre pack would be GBP 455 (approximately USD 890) plus delivery. When you compare this amount to the cumulative costs of lifting and re-painting such a boat each season for the next ten years or so, I am certain you will find that a treatment of Coppercoat provides unbeatable value for money.

Unfortunately we do not have an active distributor for Coppercoat in the USA or Mexico at this time. Currently we deliver goods to these regions by
air-freight (a service which takes approximately 5 days). Orders can be
placed by telephone, fax or e-mail, and we happily accept payment by the
major credit and debit cards or bank transfer. Carriage rates vary according
to quantity being sent, but as a guide I would expect the air-freight cost
to be approximately GBP 250 (approximately USD 490), depending on the size of the order and your choice of airport.

I think I will go ahead and make up my own usingthe direction from the web.

Greg

[maxiSwede]

@Greg

Interesting, could you post a link to the recipe on the web?

Copper is far from cheap, so this stuff will add upp to an imposing sum. IIRC Coppercoat comes with 2 kg (4,4 pounds?) per litre...

[CharlieJ]

was told the other day- current scrap price for copper is $3 a pound.i

[Tim]

was told the other day- current scrap price for copper is $3 a pound.i

And I have saved up enough scrap wire from the building projects to pay for my bottom paint the next time!

[Delezynski]

maxiSwede,

The site I was looking at was at:
http://www.epoxyproducts.com
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/copper4u.html

It's NOT an easy site to navigate, but all of the info is there, or in a link from there.

Remember, the copper has to be as finely milled as you can get! I think there may be places you can get the copper powder finer than this. I think I found at least 10 or more. I was not looking at a price yet as it may be a year before I need it.

I think the mix of copper to epoxy can be varied. Even the info from Coppercoat gives you a span of mixing it. You can see this on their web pages.

Here is a YouTube video promo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHAWtjtruW4

So, I think it will not be hard to make it up myself for A LOT LESS than they are asking. After all, it's epoxy and metallic copper. No mystery there other than to decide on the exact epoxy to use.

Greg

[CapnK]

Interesting stuff, and - Hi Pam! Long time! ;D Glad to know you are doing well!!!

A couple months ago I scored 2 gallons of ablative for $20 each. If I didn't have that ready and waiting, I'd put serious thought into the copper coating. As it is, the ablative should carry me through until I am ready to cast off /he writes while crossing fingers/ so maybe I'll do the copper stuff last thing...  :)