I am now thinking about redoing all the wood on my Lorinda and am wondering what is the best to use? I had helmsmans spar on back when I restored her but would like to "recoat" with maybe something better, cetol? Thanks in advance for your inputs. Marc
No one has replied, so I'll give you my experience with varnish. I once used big box store spar varnish on my main tabernacle and Epifanes on the mizzen. The main was peeling within 6 months and the Epifanes still looked new. If the surface is epoxied under the six coats of Epifanes I have had it last four four years before looking dull.
If doing bare wood I have had very good luck by diluting the varnish by 50% first coat 30% second 10 percent third and three full strength coats to finish off. The thinner coats soak deep into the grain and you just keep building from there for a chemical bond that's deep rooted into the grain.
I really like Epifanes Woodfinish. Goes on easier than varnish, and lasts a lot longer. It may not have quite the high gloss of a top varnish, but I prefer the look. It lasts forever on the interior, and is as weather resistant as any varnish, or more so, on the exterior, though I usually use Captain's Varnish on exterior stuff as it seems to have a bit harder surface and stands up to wear a bit better.
Thanks guys I have been looking at Epiphanes still haven't decided though, your inputs are greatly appreciated. Marc
Are you thinking of interior or exterior, or both? The reason I ask is that I have had good service from various non-marine varnishes and polyurethanes when used on the interior. I've used various Minwax products with good results. They have an infinite variety of finishes, so you can get exactly the color and look you want, and I think they work fine inside. Places like Lowes and Home Depot even carry what is labeled "spar varnish," but I have no idea if it would hold up on the exterior.
Quote from: Marc on February 28, 2013, 05:35:06 PM
Thanks guys I have been looking at Epiphanes still haven't decided though, your inputs are greatly appreciated. Marc
Used to use Z-Spar 2015. Lately been using Epifanes. Haven't decided as yet which I like best.
I do know I tried some Rustoleum spar varnish on another boat and it was failing within three weeks. And I'm (or was) a professional furniture refinisher for 30 years so it was applied correctly.
By the way, I have always used Penetrol to thin various traditional varnishes and Epiphanes wood finish on the interior and it works well for me. It is important to thin to get good brush flow, especially on the initial coats.
This might be heresy (it always seems to start heated discussions, at least), but I really like Cetol Natural for exterior brightwork. Give it two coats, and finish it with Cetol Gloss, and it will look great. On surfaces, like my tiller, that I don't want to be too glossy (and slick), I dispense with the gloss and might put on another coat of Natural instead.
This is the lazy man's solution, I realize, but who isn't a bit lazy?
Best,
--Joe
Joe, I'm overly lazy, it's always caused me trouble in the long run, especially with my wife.
I will have to try Cetol sometime. I have tried several different varnishes and keep coming back to Epifanes.
In fact on my new boat all the teak will just be oiled, I don't even want to think about the work a boat that's in the weather all the time will take. With oil I can just oil everything down every few months while having a few cold ones. I know it's not as nice but a whole lot easier than varnishing.
I like Total Wood Preservative (TWP) for my brightwork. dab it on wipe it off and great for a year or more, cedar tone 100 makes my teak perfect. I used to build furniture and can't imagine an easier finish. Acts and looks like oil. I'm in fresh water. Don't know what the salt will do to it but I'm happy with it here. Its cheap too. Wade
Funny thing. I have a new quart of Cetol ( regular) in the shop and I can't even GIVE it away. I've offered it to several folks, and it still is here.
Not light, or Natural Cetol
Charlie,
Regular Cetol ain't too bad, if you want your brightwork to look like a pumpkin ;D. I used to use it as a base coat, with Cetol Light on top of that. But natural really does look almost natural.
I don't think anything looks better than six or more coats of spar varnish. But, like I said, I'm lazy.
--Joe
I know very little about Cetol, but going back to the original post, doesn't Cetol require stripping down to bare wood before using. I don't think you can put it over varnish.
When I first bought Mathilda, I started to varnish her interior with Epifanes. NIce stuff, I'd used it before. But, living aboard, things get scratched. I have way too much to do to move a bunch of stuff for a a day or two so I can sand and re-coat several times with the Epifanes. I decided to try "fixing" the scratches with Cetol Natural. Scuff a little around the scratch, wipe some on.... give it a couple of hours to dry. If I look really, really hard I think I can see the difference. A year and a half ago, in a hurry, I put two thin coats of Cetol Natural on freshly sanded teak. It has rained, snowed, iced, been sunny and in the 90's. The Cetol is in need of repair. When I redo it this year, and not in a hurry but with 3 or 4 coats, it should last two years or more.
And if there is a spot that gets scuffed or scratched during that time, I can just scuff it and recoat. I don't have to do a whole section like with varnish. And the Cetol doesn't seem to be as finicky about the application process, either.
Besides, I bought a sail boat, not a varnish boat.
I really like Epifanes. I've used Cetol, and truthfully, don't mind it. however, it does not last long (less than a season) in my experience. I have not tried the Natural, though.
A while back, I watched this video,
Analyze the Door (http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/desert-outdoor-finish/?category_name=finishing)
and was struck by several things.
(1) A general woodworker recommending "high quality marine product" and calling marine stuff from the big box stores "poo poo" (yes, that's a direct quote). These guys are not about spending money needlessly, but getting value; this is a case where he thinks the value is worth the money.
Spoiler: the brand he recommends is Epifanes.
(2) One of his single biggest criteria is repairability. The video is well worth a watch (so I don't have to repeat his entire rationale here).
He does not want to spend a lot of time stripping large areas to make small repairs.
(3) I had planned to use oil only on my above deck wood, rather than varnish.
I have not tried this oil+varnish blend technique on my boat's wood, but I do plan to. I really like the concept.
don't laugh, but, I have used crankcase oil on weathered teak... looked good... was in my lazy dayze as a youngster, but, was a suitable re-cycling in my mind at the time
On my last boat I made the big mistake of varnishing my exterior teak - oh it looked so pretty. I think it was all peeling off within maybe a year. Then it was a mess and time consuming to sand it off. My buddy that does a lot of boat work turned me on to Cetol. I've gotten pretty good results with my outside teak. A couple coats lasted maybe a couple years. My friend puts multiple coats but in my case I had other things more pressing (like sailing). I need to redo it all but there's no flaking from the last time and shouldn't be too bad. With my interior teak I've used spar varnish and has always held up.
Quote from: Seadogdave on March 05, 2013, 08:25:39 AM
On my last boat I made the big mistake of varnishing my exterior teak - oh it looked so pretty. I think it was all peeling off within maybe a year.
Which brand? Where are you located?
The problem with these discussions is the absence of details.
Another problem is that not all varnishes are created equal.
In the SC sun and later NC sun ( ;) ), I have not had Cetol last a full season without showing signs of "wear." I've used Cetol, I do not tell people not to use it, I don't say bad things about it. But my observation on several boats is that it simply does not last.
In the 'lack of details' department...perhaps my prep is lousy. Could be. I sand, clean with acetone (or solvent recommended on the can), etc. I try to follow manufacturer's prep instructions for most of this stuff...
And still, Cetol looking "weak" after 3 or so months of real marine exposure, and totally peeling by the end of the first year.
Another thing that I personally don't like about Cetol is that I have found it impossible to "touch up." When it fails, it fails completely, but only in spots. There's no way to redo those spots; I've had to sand completely back to wood and start over. Luckily, I don't have a LOT of brightwork...but...
It's a barrier to me getting it done. I cannot do just part of a cockpit seat, for example...it's the whole thing. Then, it looks very different from the other one, and so I have to do it as well - failed Cetol or not. Maybe this is true with any finish...but one reason why I lean heavily to basic Tung oil.
Been "fighting" this on one boat for over 12 years. I'm in the mood to try something different, and the home blend of oil+super high quality varnish is attractive to me for a number of reasons.
Interesting to hear of your difficulties with Cetol. I'm located in Virginia (Chesapeake area) and experience similar harsh conditions. I used Sikkens (I think it was the Natural Teak but can't check because it's on the boat and I'm at home). I doubt that my prep work is any better than yours (I'm not very meticulous and tend to work fast). Did you use the Natural Teak or one of the other options? You mentioned peeling. I didn't have any peeling which I liked - not at all like when I used varnish. Over time it lost it's pretty look and just turned grey like old teak. I need to redo it all again (low on the priority list right now). I also am not claiming to be an expert on any of this - just a jack of all trades, master of none. Good luck on the varnish and oil blend.
I have no idea in this thread, but sometimes folks are inexact in the names and terminology they use. When I say I like Epifanes Woodfinish on the interior, I mean this stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Epifanes-EWFGS-Wood-Finish-Gloss/dp/B005ADX4N2. (http://www.amazon.com/Epifanes-EWFGS-Wood-Finish-Gloss/dp/B005ADX4N2.) It is "varnish like," but not exactly varnish. Easier to apply, more durable, easier to touch up, longer lasting, darker, and also slightly less glossy. Builds up fast.
Quote from: Kettlewell on March 11, 2013, 08:54:20 PM
I have no idea in this thread, but sometimes folks are inexact in the names and terminology they use. When I say I like Epifanes Woodfinish on the interior, I mean this stuff: http://www.amazon.com/Epifanes-EWFGS-Wood-Finish-Gloss/dp/B005ADX4N2. (http://www.amazon.com/Epifanes-EWFGS-Wood-Finish-Gloss/dp/B005ADX4N2.) It is "varnish like," but not exactly varnish. Easier to apply, more durable, easier to touch up, longer lasting, darker, and also slightly less glossy. Builds up fast.
Your link didn't work so I am providing one to the Epifanes product line;
http://www.epifanes.com/products.html (http://www.epifanes.com/products.html)
I typically use polyurethanes for interior work and true varnish for the exterior.
That's interesting--the link I gave in my previous post still works for me. In any case, the Epifanes product I use is Wood Finish Gloss.