sailFar.net

Ok, so like most FL homeowners, I got a suprise with my insurance bill this year....  ??? >:( ??? ::) :P

My home insurance with Allstate DOUBLED!!!

  So I am undergoing a re-evaluation of ALL of my insurance.

I just got a quote from USAA, for all three, (Home, boat, and car) and they are lower. 

  Since my boat is over 20 years old, they are talking about referring the underwriting to Progressive. 

  They quoted me on both the FL rate, and the NC rate.  Both were ABOUT HALF what I pay through boat US right now.

  SO, let's hear it.... the good the bad and the ugly on who you have, and what experiences you have had.

Thanks,


(OBTW, if your just read this, and don't really have anything to say, please post the name of your insurer if it is not listed.)

Thanks,

I have used Progressive for the last 5 yrs.

I am insured by 2 companies---and both policies are ready to be "used immediately " at all times---the primary is Smith and Wesson,the secondary is  Ruger.hopefully I  will never have  to file "claims" with the proper authorities-----but there are all sortsa scumbags outthere. 'nuff said

Like Faith, I have home, boat and car with Allstate.   They had the best rates at the time for boats, so I transferred everything to them.   My house and car have really gone up.   I need to check on what is exactly covered/rules on the boat before heading to the Bahamas.  I may need a different sort of plan.

Does anyone do anything different regarding boat insurance when they cruise?

Also- what about Health insurance?  Since I will be unemployed that 6 mo-yr, I need to think about alternate health insurance.  Any recommendations on that?

Eric,

  I added "I don't need no stinking insurance......" to the poll just for you.   ;D

if I recall properly there were limits on how far  vessels were covered.jus' how far canya'  "SAILFAR"  with this type of underwritten red tape? when I did all that voyaging I specifically said"no guns...no drugs...no.....{I will omit the rest} there was no insurance coverage at all.most of the marinas I was at did not require insurance but that will probably change with the onset of the increasingly strong storms .they never rebuilt the marina in pahokee that I was in---that was 2 years ago.the best insurance for a boat is a good reliable liferaft complete with water maker,EPIRB, and rations.dont be fooled.its like I said---that boat can and will be out from under you in no time at all with little or no warning.it matters not what kind of insurance you have when the dorsal fins start circling you.{that jus'scared the B'-jeeez outta every one}

I have had boat insurance with All State, BoatUS and Progressive.  My primary boat had All State, but I am hauling her to Maine and switched to Progressive.  The only claim I ever had was on my secondary boat which was insured with BoatUS and I must admit they did a great job of covering the loss.

The coverage area seems to be the same for BoatUS and Progressive, something like 200 miles off the coast of the US, which includes the USVI and Puerto Rico.

what happens when you go 201 miles off the coast----and what if something happens at 199.9 miles off the coast----then you drift for 2 tenths of a mile further? not to be sarcastic---but these things do happen---not just on TV but in real life too. ???If that happens---my policy covers me----I just have to declare  that I have such coverage in certain places.

I'm using a Zurich Direct Yatch policy through Hartge Marine Insurance, out of Annapolis. 

 lol I tried to get insurance on my C27 and I had to get it survayed. the boat replacement value according an fella who did survays for nearly 45 years,  was around $2500. I paid $700 for it, and the survay was over $1000, so I would have been better off putting the money in a jar  and when I lost my boat I would just buy a replacement cheaper then hopping the insurance would cover it. I refloated it 2 times so that was not a prob, gotten fairly good at it.
now the boat I own was free, it will not completly go under (lots of floatation foam in her) and the value is close to $1000 - $1500, so I'll just save the monthly payments in a jar....LOL
Bill

Wonder if any of you with inexpensive boats carry only liability insurance for others injuries or property damage, the type a marina might require? Wouldn't think a survey should be required if hull not insured.

I've self insured my cars physical damage for most of 50 years, and saved a load of $, maybe $15-20K or more. I'd expect to do the same for a boat if the hull value was under maybe 25K. Self insuring, of course, requires a higher degree of owner loss control/safety precautions.

We only have liability insurance on Tehani, in conjunction with our homeowners.

After the run around I got from Boat US trying to just get a quote I gave up.
Those people (boat US insurance division)  couldn't find their butt with both hands in my experience.

I have Allstate on the boat since I still have a few payments to make.  I did not have to get it surveyed since it was a small boat and under a certain amt of $$'s.   I will need to check into the coverage a little further prior to heading south later in the yr.  I cannot remember what my offshore coverage is.    :)

Seems like yet another advantage of the 'sailfar' concept is that insurance is not as big a deal for us.

  It is one thing to insure something you are making a mortgage payment on, and something else to insure something you might have paid less for then a used car.  ;D

  My idea (or objective for) insurance coverage is not an attempt to manage risk of loss of the boat, but liability.  I could probably find another boat for the insured value of my boat, but I would not insure it if it were only for that.

  The first week I owned 'Faith' I brought her 300 miles home.  At one point in the trip while docking in Elizabeth City, NC I nearly was blown into a huge trawler by a stiff breeze.  The owner was perched on his deck (well above me) looking down with arms folded.  He made no effort to assist, or toss a fender over but rather stood and watched with arms folded as I drifted twords his hull with it's flawless (imron?) paintjob that you could see yourself in......  ::)   My amazing first mate somehow saved the day (we ended up spending the night on the hook).

  Guys like that, and the idiots who speed this way and that in their powerboats, who will cause accidents, and look to pass the buck to anyone else..... are the reason I see to keep insurance.  That and the dock Nazi who would call the coast guard when a drop of fuel might drizzle from my fuel jug into the drink....


On Edit, 20 July 2006

  In another thread, "Is this a good price"  (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=566)I typed  the following

QuoteFWIW, Boat US did not require me to get a survey to insure my boat with them (couple years ago).  The guy who I did a delivery for 2 weeks ago (Hunter 30) was not required to get a survey (progressive?) and the owners of 'Ariel Spirit' (last month's delivery) were not required to get a survey either.

  Since most of the replies that followed delt more with insurance then with the boat I have split them off and placed them here.

BTW, small claims court is probably not an option, as in most states it tops out at $3500 or so.  The survey is required if the boat is going to be insured IIRC.

But couldn't a survey done for insurance purposes be done AFTER the purchase?

Technical point, I know.

How many distance cruisers insure their boat?  Who here does?

I just got insurance on my boat this year, and I really did that because I am towing a lot more (for longer distances) than before.  The insurance was more for peace of mind while towing than while boating, and total replacement was only $90 per year on our existing policy.

Most long term cruisers that I've come in contact with have NO insurance on the boat. Costs way too much to insure boats outside the US or offshore. I know when I was living aboard and cruising full time we had no boat insurance.  No health insurance either, and many cruisers are in THAT group also.

Good, heavy duty anchors and rodes are your best insurance anyway ;D

I tried to insure Tehani with BOAT/US and they couldn't find their AS* with both hands, then finally decided to talk to me- wanted a haulout, a 600 dollar survey and HUGE premiums. heck, I don't have that much in the boat, other than sweat-equity.

I finally bought liability from my home insurance agent, which was all I wanted anyway.

Remember- Tehani is 45 years old ;)- older than Laura is in fact.

without going into great detail though, I decided that if they were THAT bad just trying to get a quote, I'd NEVER get anything from them should I have an actual claim- The whole episode was straight from Keystone Kops.

Right, but is there not a lot of horror stories out there about Boat US not being the best to get insurance from?  I mean, I guess they are good for towing insurance and other AAA type stuff, but perhaps not for the boat itself (I think I've gathered they strongly disfavor older boats...am I wrong about this).

Besides, the type of insurance they 'push' seems to lie outside the sailfar spirit like we discussed with Neal that night on the chat....you made the decision to go, you should not expect others to bail you out. 

Just thinkin' ....

Yup,
 
  I have Boat US, not to cover the boat, but for the liability insurance that my marina requires.  I agree with the idea of not relying on insurance.  There is a couple in the marina who sold their house and bought a cat (34'?) they are making a mortgage payment on, so I guess they would not be able to go without insurance.  'Faith' is paid for, as I suspect are the majority of our boats (as Capt. Smollett mentioned, another advantage of the SAILFAR idea). .

  There is a guy a few slips down from me, who just got a new Harken furler installed tonight after his forestay broke )old furler had a bent extrusion).  I asked him what it was going to cost him and he said "all I am paying is my deductable".  I doubt it would even occur to me to have made a claim. 

  My boat, my rigging, my responsibility. 

Probably a good thing since the plan has us heading to back home to FL in the next year or so, if I can avoid it, I would much rather skip the insurance extorsion racket.

  Charlie, I don't know why they (boat US) did not require me to get a survey, 'Faith' is nearly the same age as Tehani, and Lord knows nothing short of a nuclear strike is gonna hurt either boat in such a way as to render it uninsureable.  ;D (ok, maybe soft decks) Maybe it was because the prior owner also had a policy with Boat US.  I was required to send in several current pictures.  I do know that it is not uncommon for other small boat owners to get insurance without a survey as did the others I mentioned above.

Unless I'm grossly misinformed, a survey isn't generally required for liability insurance.

OK- real quickly, here's the tale.

I called Boat/us and did an online quote with one of their people. He promised a quote by that friday. Friday comes, no quoute, monday, tuesday, etc. This was supposed to be a phone call by the way.

So I called back- got told they didn't insure boats that were up for sale. Told them it WASN'T "FOR SALE" it was a SAIL boat. She says "Oh- I'll fix that and mail you a quote". Comes the letter- "we don't insure boats that are for sale".

So I call back- "it ain't for sale". . Send us a fax to that effect. So I sent the fax- " the boat is not now, nor has it been for sale- it's a sail boat"

Comes the letter "we don't insure boats that are for sale"

So I call back AGAIN. same poop- send us a fax- "where's the first fax?" Don't know. So I fax again, call back- yep- she got it, she'll handle it-

Comes another letter- "we don't insure boats that are for sale".

Two days later I get ANOTHER letter telling me that my premiums would be "some ungodly amount" and I would have to have an out of the water survey before the insurance would be issued. Their surveyor by the way. Haul-out fee, surveyor fee, etc.

So I call back- All I want is liability.

We'll get back to you.

Ready? You got it-

Letter comes- "we don't insure boats that are for sale"

So I gave up.

Far as I'm concerned they can't find their butts with both hands and I don't intend to renew my membership, which by the way, expired some months ago, but they sent me the mag anyway, AND keep emailing me the "newsletter" so I guess they havcen't figured out that I'm a lapsed member.

I see utterly NO benefit to belonging.

If we go aground, I'll get it off myself. I've done it often enough now I can do it in the dark  ;D

Interestingly enough, I had this same kinda runaround with Boat/US back in the 80s when I wanted insurance on my trimaran, only that time, for several tries, filling out forms and mailing them in, they just totally ignored me.

So I'm done with them.

I got liabilty through my homeowners policy. Called my agent, told him the state numbers on the boat, described the boat,  and he says- "you now have a million in liability insurance" Just like that.

Progressive it took 10 min or less on the phone to get covered.

Yep, Allstate was about a ten minute phone call, too.  Just give the hin, answer a few questions about how I use the boat and what coverage I want, and....done.

Easier, and cheaper, than I thought it would be.

Boat US sure sounds bilged.

I used Hartge Insurance out of Annapolis, and got a quote the same day I asked for one.  :D

I have Allstate on Pixie Dust.  I just reviewed and coverage is good for US and Canada and up to 100 NM off the Continental US.  My annual rate is only 182 which I feel is reasonable.   I am going to contact them though to see about a rider for more distance off.  Even if not, I will renew this yr because a lot of time will still be spent within the 100 NM, especially in the Bahamas.  I iwill keep you posted on what I find out about a rider.  It may not be worth the added expense. 

Being another of the Liability Only crew,  My question is which companys seem to offer the best deal on liability only.  The quote from my local insurance office that I run the cars through was way out of line for the size of boat that I have.  A 21 ft speed boat with 400 hp maybe but not a sailboat with 4.5 hp.  Any suggestions that may help?

Our liability is with Allstate. Cost me an additional $13 a month. BUT we have both house ( three policies) and car insurance with them also, so my agent was right willing to talk.

having found that insurance companies have long since given up concepts like customer loyalty and looking after their existing customer base in order to attract "new business", my wife and I spend a couple of days per year chopping and changing around our various policies and shopping them around through the internet.

It is truly amazing the money that this saves.

At the moment we have both cars with the same company, but this is mostly because of coincidence. Everything else is farmed out to the lowest premiums amongst a select bunch of insurers (Or as we decided, "we are too poor to pay money to an insurer we would also have to take to court to get a settlement"...So it is not just about picking the lowest price across the board.)

At the end of the year, we do our research and gather our prices and if we are happy with our existing insurer, we give them a call and TELL THEM what premium they need to match or better to retain our business. If thye do not then bye bye.

Using this methd means that we have ended up with the RACV insurance company (as an example) three times in alternate years, as they do not haggle, but offer all sorts of insentives to leave "your existing insurer for us". So we spend a year with them at the honeymoon rate, price the alternatives, go with them and then get "seduced" back by the RACV.

It is a little insane, but it is worth while to the tune of several hundred dollars and a range of benefits.

I have found that though when I first went to insure our boat, most companies wanted a survey. One didn't, and gave me agreed value (Locked in and set in stone). At the end of the second year we were offered a better deal but because we were already insured we were not asked for a survey and the agreed value was carried over to the new insurer (who was one of the ones that insisted ona survey when we first queeried them).

I think of it as a game of chess...otherwise it would seem too stupid to be fun playing.



Alex.

I also think a LOT of it depends on the agent. we've had the same agent now for 14 years, he's a friend, and looks for ways to save us money. He's called at renewal time and suggested changes that would be beneficial to us financially..

Once when we were out of town the insurer needed photos of our house for windstorm renewal. He couldn't get in touch with us, so he drove out (70 mile round trip) and took the pics himself.

THAT kind of agent, you stay with.

Ok- the 100NM off Continental US does not include the Bahamas with AllState.  I would need to get a rider for approx $100 to cover the Bahamas.  They gave me the name and number of a Ft. Lauderdale company that does riders for "foreign sailing"  It is The Loomis Company.  They cannot currently give me a quote since they are under hurricane watch.  I am curious to see the cost of this.

As for the sale of my house,  Allstate would not write her a new policy due to the age of my roof.  The roof passed the home inspection and I currently have Allstate, but since the past hurricanes, this is the new policy procedures.  She has been with this agent her whole life and is not willing to change agents.  That is dedication.  Needless to say, she backed out within her 10 day window Sat.   :( :'(  Anyone want to buy a home in Tally.  (we are a hurricane evacuation point   ;) )  Home is back on the market.

Oh Man, Connie, I am sorry to hear that.  That is a rather silly reason to back out of buying a house - but that just my opinion.  Insurance is a business arrangement, and I don't understand that kind of loyalty to a business 'partner' who is not giving you what you want (and are willing to pay for).

Oh well.  It'll sell.  Just remember, when we sold our last house, the first offer on it was so ludicrously insulting and it was LESS than what we owed on the mortgage!  You find all kinds of folks when buying and selling houses...it's mind boggling.

Sorry to hear the bad news Connie.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya...

CJ -

"Tehani" is for sale? WOW!?! How much are you asking???









teeheehee :D

In their November 2007 Site Update (http://www.landlpardey.com/Where/Where_Now.html), Lin Pardey describes the process of them 'settling in' ashore for a time.  Though there is a lot of interest in this tale, one thing that jumped out at me was that they were denied dockage at NUMEROUS marinas in the Southern CA area due to lack of FULL insurance coverage on Taleisin.

That's amazing.  I can (sorta) see marinas requiring liability, but to require full coverage is a bit flakey, imo.  Also, I would think they would see just having L&L and their famous boat there as a BIG PLUS, puplicity-wise.

My only experience with a marina that 'required' insurance was Hilton Head Harbor in Hilton Head, SC.  I told the dock master I did not have insurance, nor did I have the 'required' automatic bilgepump.  I guess he did not hear me as he completed my paperwork and took my check for the week.

I'm still trying to get my head around someone refusing Lin and Larry dockage - that sure does make for some powerfully negative word-of-mouth for the area's tourism, eh?  Not that it will matter, of course.  LA's marinas will continue to be able to set their own price, but it at least cements in MY mind a place I'll not visit.

That would be like an LA church keeping out the pope  ;)

The marina must cater to powerboats... :) It is rather short-sighted of the marina to refuse to give Larry & Lin a slip... I can understand why they'd ask for liability coverage, but full coverage???

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on November 24, 2007, 11:17:02 AM
The marina must cater to powerboats... :) It is rather short-sighted of the marina to refuse to give Larry & Lin a slip... I can understand why they'd ask for liability coverage, but full coverage???

It was not A marina, but many.  Read the article - they pretty much were denied dockage in the whole harbor, and were finally offered a spot by a friend.

That's even worse... I would wonder if it is a local requirement...but that sounds pretty ridiculous...since many people I know that own older boats have liability but not full coverage on their boats.

okay guys the time has come for me to get Lorinda out of the backyard and hopefully into a slip at a nearby body of water.  I have'nt talked to my insurance man yey because I don't know what questions to ask.  Afterall this is Iowa!  Just what do I need for this and such.  I figure you guys are the pros so I'm starting here.  Thanks to all, Marc

We carry liability only on Tehani. When I lived aboard and cruised before I has nothing.

I'd thik liability would do. Ours is attached to our homeowners.
I tried. To get insurance from Boat/US on three different occasions, each time a real Cluster-f***. they don't seemtp be able to find thier butts with both hands.
Your mileage may vary.

Marc,

  I went ahead and merged your thread into this one with the same title.  I think you will find some good info if you read back through the thread from the beginning.

  As a matter of fact, I ASSURE you it will INSURE that you get more folks input....  ;)

I to have had no luck with Boat/US, they wanted me to get a survey and there cost per year was out of sight.
I also got my insurance through my my homeowners policy (Farm Bureau Ins.) like Charlie and my premium is about 1/3 of what Boat/US wanted and no survey.
I would check with your home or auto insurance agent first, its usually cheaper to bundle your polices.
Good Luck

The last time I checked, a few years ago, Allstate refused me because the boat was over 30 years old.  That was before I insured my house with them.  Boat/US gave me insurance but demanded a full survey.  And then followed weeks of back and forth until they where satisfied every little nit pick was fixed.

I've been on the hard for over a year now and am uninsured at present.  I'll be putting liability (I assume that covers recovery if it should sink in the bay ... can't leave the boat on the bottom) on in the spring. I probably won't deal with Boat/US again. Hopefully Allstate will be happier this time around. Or progressive.

Hi Marc, I think I would talk to the people where you want to keep your boat to see what it takes to satisify them, for starters. When I bought my boat, an 1980, Cape Dory 27, it was in wausau, WS on a home built trailer. I lived in AZ with another year before retirement. I wanted to insure it before I hauled 5 tons of boat and trailer across the US behind my truck. I called boat US. They did want a survey but I had one done before buying the boat and faxed it to them. they agreed to insure the boat for a value of 17,500 and provide liability of 100,000 for 157 a year. That was in 11-03. I've been with them ever since and so far never had a problem.

Guess I should add that I've never had to use it. I do get 16 bucks knocked of for that tho.

I found similar experiences with Boat US, but also found the situation correctable.  I got the usual brush-off with a liability-only offer and the requirement for a survey.  I responded in writing and told them that was not good enough, and that if that was the best they could do, I wasn't interested.  I sent my resume and a copy of my 500-ton ocean master's license.  I added that there were only two surveyors listed in the whole state of Oklahoma, and one of them has no small boat or sailboat experience.  With the distance they would have to travel, a survey would cost $400.  Boat US came back with full coverage, and at a good rate for all the US, Canada, and 100 NM offshore, and accepted an eight-year-old survey made in Florida.

State Farm was the one that was ridiculous.  I have our home and two vehicles with them, so went into the agent's office expecting a warm reception.  Instead, they insisted on a full survey, the rates were ridiculous, and allowed the use of the boat in Oklahoma only.  I tried to explain that there was no water in Oklahoma, other than the random mud puddle, but they didn't care whether they provided a policy or not.  I found them unreasonable.  

Allstate gave me no problems.

Full coverage on the trailer boat - 1/4 or so the price of BoatUS, no survey.  That covers boat, trailer and contents when not being towed.  When being towed, it is covered on the auto policy (also with Allstate).

Liability only on Big Boat - 1/4 the price of BoatUS.  No survey.

No questions asked.  Picked up the phone, asked for a coverage quote, gave the particulars (HIN, boat size, etc), got quote, got coverage.

When we moved, we did have one Allstate agent refuse to provide insurance on the Alberg - she said NC law prohibits insuring a boat that is lived on.  In fact, she went on to tell me that it was illegal to live on a boat in NC.  We went to another agent and got auto policies transferred, both boats set and some other business in less than an hour.  That first agent did not know the law (or anything about boats) and rather than just say "I don't know insuring boats" she pulled this law stuff out of her behind.

Good business practice, that.  But is shows that there will be a TON of variation from agent-to-agent.  Boats will be out of the comfort zone of some of them.

Lest anyone think I'm a pirate with no insurance, I thought I'd clarify... my boat's sitting on the hard at the head of Buzzard's Bay. Until it's time for it to get back in the water there's little need to insure her, the only disasters I can think of are both "acts of God" - a tornado or a hurricane blowing through.
Doubt I would carry fully insurance on it though, just liability to cover other boats from damage.

Tom?

That sounds reasonable.  Let us know if you need a hand with anything, as there are a few of us on Buzzards Bay.

We found that liability only was the way to go. Higher premiums and haulout costs would cut into most claims excepting a total loss. Progressive has worked out well for us, plus, we never had to talk to anyone. Everything has been done on line and that really counts for something.

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on January 24, 2010, 08:43:11 AM
Tom?

That sounds reasonable.  Let us know if you need a hand with anything, as there are a few of us on Buzzards Bay.

I'm flattered. Thank you.
As soon as work commences (channeling Jed Clampett) I'll let everyone know what issues I have (I'm sure something will come up).

 No insurance. As Slocum said"Pay them with the mainsheet".

None since 04. Too expensive once you state "Gulf stream and Bahamas" in my mind

Unlike others, I had no problems at all with BoatUS.  The yard I'm in said I needed liability to stay there, though their agreement says I need to carry $1 million, plus hull value, etc.  I clarified that and they said $300K is all right.  I went to BoatUS with that, got a quote right away.  They did ask for a survey, but I didn't mind getting it at all; I found it really useful (and much better than expected).   BoatUS got the survey via email and sent us a binder right off even before they received a payment.  It's $177 a year, which doesn't seem like much to me.  Is it?  :)

I insure nothing at all.

I'm a big fan of USAA. They have covered me for vehicles, homeowners (when I had a house), and personal property - they have been very understanding about having no fixed address and dealing with me by e-mail and general delivery.

I had a long discussion with a supervisor in the underwriting department when I bought my 35' power boat. USAA doesn't deal well with long distance travel by boat - their experience is mostly trailer boats.

The power boat was insured with Boat/US. I was very happy with them, and the one claim I had to file was quickly and professionally managed.

For Auspicious I carry a policy with Jackline by IMIS. I've been thrilled with their support. My base policy covers me for the Chesapeake and Delaware Bays to the Colreg line. When I am going to cross the line I buy a rider for just the time I need. When I went to the Bahamas I almost forgot and IMIS got me covered while I was on the phone with them sitting in Little Creek (oops). They are covering my trip to RI, CT, and NY this summer for a couple hundred dollars.

Liability only is our choice too.

Not really a voluntary choice though. But when those leeches want 15-30 % (!) of the market value of our boat in yearly premium we don't have much of a choice. >:( ::)