Howdy!
I'm new here, and to sailing!
I'm 42 and living in Arizona, (E SE of Tucson) looking to get into sailing, I went once back in the 80's in/on a hobicat 16 off the NJ shore . . . then in the mid 90's My cousin had taken a course or two, and then was a member of a yacht club, and we went out a few times on Lake Washington in a J22 I loved it, My wife had not gone, but was not interested . . . I've been working on her, and now she is open to it, and just maybe. . . . could be convince to go cruising year round!
So my idea is to buy a little (under 20') sailboat and practice tipping it over, and getting wet! Actually, plan to find out how it all works, and stay dry as much as possible, but . . . Well you know how plans go!
Since I don't know allot about sailing (but have lots of canoe experience!) but found a neat site (not quite as cool as here!) but . . . http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/ (http://www.cruising.sailingcourse.com/) which I can do at home, I'm a quick learner, and know how to swim! Besides I believe in using PFD's!
So here is my questions:
1. What should I look for as my "trainer" boat? I'm thinking mono hull 14' - 16' maybe also hobicat, but not sure if I like the "seating" position! So Mono, or Multi?
2. Hopefully in a year or two I could sell it, and buy a bigger boat . . . (you know the 2' itis!) and eventually If every thing works out, by the time I'm 50 I'll be cruising the world in a 26' - 30', and not lookin back! SO what do you recommend for easy "Resale"?
3. I have a little GMC Sonoma (S-15) P/U to pull this around, so that limits my choices some . . . but should be fine until my next jump up . . . How hard is it to "right" a small boat like this with two people in the water?
Thanks again,
Shawn
Look for an older boat that you can do a little sleep in like a Venture 22 or 25. Something with a cabin so you can fix something hot, get out of the weather, Sleep and put in a potty.
Lots of these around. Have fun and welcome.
look for one of the compacs (http://www.com-pacyachts.com/com-paclegacy.php), or if your a bit more adventuresome, a Montgomery 17 (http://www.montgomeryboats.com/).
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on August 19, 2008, 06:44:07 PM
look for one of the compacs (http://www.com-pacyachts.com/com-paclegacy.php), or if your a bit more adventuresome, a Montgomery 17 (http://www.montgomeryboats.com/).
Thanx! Do you think they made a typo on the draft with the board up? (The meters may be right)
The Legacy
Specifications
Length Overall: 16 ft. 6 in. / 5.03 m
Beam: 6 ft. 0 in. / 1.83 m
Draft, board up: 16 ft. 0 in. / 0.41 m
Draft, board down: 3 ft. 6 in. / 1.07 m
Displacement: 1000 lbs. / 454 kg
Both that and the Montgomery sound cool, but do you think it would be ok to start out learning with them, or should I get something like a sunfish, in case I capsize?
I'm thinking over 20' might get me in trouble too quickly.
There is a nice little 15' wwp http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110281005172&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110281005172&rd=1) not sure where it is gonna end up . . . it is Denver, over 600 mi one way . . .
Nah, the boat's got a really strangely shaped centerboard...:) IIRC, the board up draft is 16" not 16'—a data entry error.
The Compacs and Montgomery boats are probably fine to learn on, since they're fairly stable. :) They'd also be good choices since you can overnight in them as well. They also have some basic systems, but not the really complex ones you'd find on a fully-equipped cruising boat.
Quote from: Shawn T W. on August 19, 2008, 10:31:34 PM
Quote from: AdriftAtSea on August 19, 2008, 06:44:07 PM
look for one of the compacs (http://www.com-pacyachts.com/com-paclegacy.php), or if your a bit more adventuresome, a Montgomery 17 (http://www.montgomeryboats.com/).
Thanx! Do you think they made a typo on the draft with the board up? (The meters may be right)
The Legacy
Specifications
Length Overall: 16 ft. 6 in. / 5.03 m
Beam: 6 ft. 0 in. / 1.83 m
Draft, board up: 16 ft. 0 in. / 0.41 m
Draft, board down: 3 ft. 6 in. / 1.07 m
Displacement: 1000 lbs. / 454 kg
Both that and the Montgomery sound cool, but do you think it would be ok to start out learning with them, or should I get something like a sunfish, in case I capsize?
I'm thinking over 20' might get me in trouble too quickly.
There is a nice little 15' wwp http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110281005172&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110281005172&rd=1) not sure where it is gonna end up . . . it is Denver, over 600 mi one way . . .
Yeah, I like the idea of being able to sleep in it, and my Wife Cyndi likes the idea of having the PP out of site when in use!
I don't like complex! Simple is GREAT! That's why I like this site! Most everybody else is trying to figure out how to add the freezer and big screen to their ships, and probably need 1000 gal fuel tanks too!
Shawn
Shawn I learned on a Laser- small fast dingy that can be found for about 500 or so. Great for the reservoirs and lakes around Arizona. (I'm originally from New Mexico) It fits on a car and is a lot faster than a sunfish. The basics of sailing can be had for pretty cheap. Just go out and enjoy yourself for a while and see if you want to make it part of your life.
My 2 cents...
The Laser sound cool, and would I assume be easier to "right" if the occasion should "arise"! looks like a cockpit which my feet drop into, and seating is on the hull.
My one concern would be taking my wife along with me, as she needs to think this is fun too! Do you think two people would be comfortable on this?
I don't need to sleep in it, (any 1st boat) but having a place nearby we could dock to use a restroom would be nice.
BTW lakes are atleast 2 hours away, but I can make a day of it, and be home that night.
Shawn
I was originally thinking of taking this beginners course offered at http://www.arizonayachtclub.org/Education/ (http://www.arizonayachtclub.org/Education/) but . . . I got to thinking . . . it is about 400 mile round trip, I would need to go there 4 times, I would need to spend 4 nights in a motel, and pay for the class.
1600 mi @ 25 mpg = 64 gal @ $3.70 a gallon = $236.80
Motel @ $90 a night = $360.00
Cost of Class = $350.00
Total of $946.80 And I still don't have a boat to sail!
So I could take that $900 and buy a little boat, and just go out an sail around "learning"
They use the Catalina / Capri 14.2 and was thinking if this would be more suitable for my wife and I?
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/bristles.jpg)
It kinda looks like a little row boat with a funny little sail! Allthough the website http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=6 (http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=6) shows it using a jib also with a more "standard" sail? And a more pointy bow, like . . .
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/C142_final_HP.jpg)
Thanks again,
Shawn
Quote from: Shawn T W. on August 20, 2008, 11:56:07 AM
Yeah, I like the idea of being able to sleep in it, and my Wife Cyndi likes the idea of having the PP out of site when in use!
I don't like complex! Simple is GREAT! That's why I like this site! Most everybody else is trying to figure out how to add the freezer and big screen to their ships, and probably need 1000 gal fuel tanks too!
Shawn
Check out the ComPac yachts. There are CP 16's out there that can be had inexpensively, and resale is excellent. I am selling my CP 19 complete with a little gimbled burner, sink, potty, full lighting, everything!!! The only thing is, you won't tip over a CP 19. Very stable little boats, I suppose all of them are when you get in the 20 foot range....
Yes, I am moving to bigger and more complex, but with 5 in the family I just have to.
What do you think this is?
I found it on CL. All they write about it is this "NOT SURE WHAT BRAND IT IS, SAIL BOAT DOES INCLUDE THE TRAILER TOO. I JUST NEED TO SELL IT. SERIOUS INQUIRES ONLY PLEASE"
In an older listing they wrote "SAILBOAT AND TRAILER, SAIL IS INCLUDED AND THE STEERING DEVISE IS IN THE BOAT TOO. 1ST COME 1ST SERVED."
It is about 1000 mi roundtrip . . . but almost giving it away!
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Whats1.jpg)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Whats2.jpg)
Shawn
Looks like an old venture.If so...lightly built but if the price is right and you're looking to learn ?????
You want a deal? Check this out....
· 1976 26' Columbia MK2 Sailboat
· Clear title
· No cradle or trailer included
· Ray Marine tri-data instrument (speed, temp, depth)
· Mast & boom (mast is up)
· Rolling furling jib sail & main sail
· All rigging included
· No motor
· Engine mount for outboard motor
· 2 gas tanks
The owner said the sails were cared for each year, the boat was ready for sail, and he was just getting too old.... So what do you think this boat sold for?
She sold for $1025.
Here's the eBay link http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150282861687&rd=1
I was watching it and couldn't believe my eyes.... These charity donations are the kiss of death for a boat selling for good money....
I have a boat for sale, but if anyone is in the market, check out Boat Angels or these Boys Ranch auctions.... You can have a prospective boat surveyed prior to buying it too.
A really nice boat for $1,000 .... Unreal.....
There is a lot of good deals out there. I would wait for a while and check out the local market. Go to the local marine store and post a Sailboat wanted sign and check out the local marinas/boat stores. Put an add in the local "Boat trader" and check out the local charities.
Check out trailer, Much rust is a b ad sign
Check out the swing keel. Lots of rust, bad sign.
check sails for rips and raise mast.
It would be rare to get a perfect boat. but cheep ones are out there.
Note: there is boats that should be fire wood as well.
I bought my boat on Ebay. I lurked for a year looking every day unitl I felt comfortable that I knew what I was looking at. Finally a boat came up. There was a phone numbr at the marina but no one knew anything about the boat. I called the repair facility at the yard and hired a man to take a look at the boat. He measured moisture content of the hull and reported that she appeared in good shape. I won the auction at $1700. The surveyor assesed her value at $7000. I put in another couple of thousand for new sails, rebuild the centerboard. She has been a terrific boat.
Paceship PY26
Oded Kishony
Yeah, $1000 would be nice, but local is hard, as there are no lake real close by . . . They wanted $200 for it, but have not returned my call . . . maybe it's gone?
I keep an eye on ebay & CL, I'll check those others too!
Thanks,
Shawn
shawn,
I bought my first dingy sailor for 25 dollars complete at a yard sail. They are out there if your willing to do a little looking. (that included the sails!)
I am still looking . . . not in a big hurry . . . but I would like to get out on the water . . . we don't have ice here!
I'd be happy to pay only $200 - $300 for a starter boat, and would not expect it to be perfect, but very cautious to travel 1000 mi and find out it is not worth pulling home!
Shawn
Hey Shawn, welcome to Sailfar and sailing.
Reading: Start with the book by the guy who started it all, Joshua Slocum and keep going. Sailing literature is a great way to gain knowledge.
Sailing: Go sailing! Seems obvious. If buying a boat, try one that makes your little heart go pitta-pat. My first boat was a 16 foot Comet. I still have some of my best memories sailing that old boat in Pleasant Bay on Cape Cod and Biscayne Bay off Miami.
I work for a sailing school/sailing club and can say that the folks who start here and just plain "go sailing" move along pretty quickly.
Have fun.
Yeah THANX!
I have been reading about Joshua . . .neat oldtimer . . .
I am still looking, (don't really want to travel 500 mi) just need something to get out on the water, but don't want someones else's junk!
I do like the lines of the Capri 14.2 for a day sailer, and the Monty 17 looks like FUN! But not sure how much is involved with launching from a trailer all of the time, but . . . I could get two days out of it staying over night, before loading up, and coming home.
I don't care for the Hobie cat type sitting on the trampoline, (bad knees) nor the laser sitting on the edge with my butt hanging over (looks too wet!)
Shawn
A Catalina 22 with a trailer. They're everwhere. Lots of older cheaper ones. The trailer gives you lots of options for, not only trailer sailing in new areas, but haul out for bottom paint repairs, etc. You can also sail in hurricane areas during hurricane season knowing you can plop her on a trailer and get out of dodge on a moments notice. Beats the heck out of tying her off to a bunch of mangroves in a swamp.
Quote from: rtbates on August 29, 2008, 03:49:57 PM
A Catalina 22 with a trailer. They're everwhere. Lots of older cheaper ones. The trailer gives you lots of options for, not only trailer sailing in new areas, but haul out for bottom paint repairs, etc. You can also sail in hurricane areas during hurricane season knowing you can plop her on a trailer and get out of dodge on a moments notice. Beats the heck out of tying her off to a bunch of mangroves in a swamp.
Wouldn't that be a bit big to get started on?
Don't have many hurrcanes in AZ, yet . . . !
Shawn
Actually a Cat 22 would be an outstanding starter boat. Big enough to weekend on, big enough and stable enough to not worry about capsizing, and small enough to be forgiving and also small enough to not be intimidating.
No, not to big starting out as you will be using it more, I think.
You could get an 8 foot boat and work your way up but you could not spend the night on it or use the head or easily cook. Makes a lot of differance for weekend use. There is some smaller in the 16 foot range.
Any boat has a learning curve. Find somebody who can teach you a way to get to and from the dock and put up the sails and study some more. No really right way, some are better than others.
Right now, and for the last month, I've been working with a pair of brand new sailors. They moved down here from Montana, and bought a Starwind 22. Neither of them had EVER been on a boat with sails until we launched it to bring it to the slip here in Port Lavaca. Our 5 hour delivery trip was the very first sail for either of them.
I've been out with them two more times, and one of the other experienced sailors at the marina has been out once.
Last Monday they solo'ed.
Kinda like watching your kid take the car for the first time ;D ;D Proud, but scared for them.
They did fine.
The Starwind is an excellent boat for them- large enough to move around on, heavy enough to not scare her. The Catalina would be the same.
OK, I'll look at the 22' range, obviously the dagger board models will be more friendly to launch off a trailer, huh?!
Shawn
Do you mean centerboard models. I wouldn't really recommend a dagger board boat to a novice. Fine sailboats, but they have complications that a centerboard or swing keeler don't. Besides, space for the dagger board trunk takes a LOT of the interior of a small boat.
I'd say look for a decent boat in the 20 to 22 foot range with a swing keel OR a stub keel with an enclosed swing.
I'm in the same boat as you are.
I found a $300 snipe dinghy on CL that looks like the boat for me. The only problem is, its in the area I won't be in for another 3 or 4 more months.. Hopefully they'll still have it then!
My problem is, I don't have a truck to tow a boat with, I have a car. So I'm thinking its gonna have to be either a dinghy type of boat, or something in the water. But then something in the water will have more expenses. Too much just for learning.
I would love to have something I could do weekends in, but then again, the area I will be sailing is mostly small lakes. its feasable to spend a weekend on them, but not that big a deal If i don't.
I am so anxious to get into a boat, that right now the biggest issue, how cheap is it? and where's it at?
If you can find other sailors in your area, they may be the best resource for helping find a local boat in your price range. Even in the midwest where I am moving, there is a sailing club and a local sailboat dealer! I'm thinking that some of the best bargains are not gonna be from a dealer or broker. Keep an eye on craigslist and the local paper, and ebay could be good if you can find something in your area.
The only thing I can really suggest, is to get something thats sailable right now, you don't wanna be putting money into new sails or a motor (if it needs one) before you can get on the water for the first time.
What kind of sailing do you really want to do?
Dinghy sailing is lots of fun. You are closer to the water. It is exciting. Is cheaper to maintain. It's also much less forgiving of mistakes. Odds are you will be spending a fair amount of time in the water. Of course, even if you dump the boat, it will probably cost you no more than a swim and bailing time.
The bigger cabin sailboat, or even ballasted day sailors, are a different experience altogether. I don't really think a decent 20-25 footer is really any harder to learn on than a dinghy. It is highly unlikely you would ever capsize one. Everything happens slower. The ride is drier and more comfortable. If you do run into something, though, it will likely be much more expensive than in a dinghy; so getting some help initially would not be a bad idea, especially in crowded waters. On going costs will likely be a lot higher (although, oddly, the initial purchase might not be).
I would suggest you look at the kind of boat you WANT to sail. If cruising is your goal, getting a good 20-25 footer would make sense. If just spending time on the water is what you are looking for, almost anything will do. If you like the thought of racing, see what kind of local one design fleets (if any) there are (dinghy or keel boat) and go that way.
Eventually . . .I hope to cruise . . . and cruise, and maybe just not come back, but . . . for now I need to learn more about sailing, and get a few years of experience . . .
I need a boat that will keep me some what dry, and the idea of having a space to utilize a port a potty is very disireable (Happy Wife - Happy Life!) I don't need fast, stable is more important, to start out on I'll be going on lakes and reservoirs, but eventually I'll need to practice in the ocean! I also need a boat that can be relative easy to launch off a trailer, so something with little draft (as I can't push it too far in with my 2wd Sonoma P/U, well . . . at least and get the truck back out!)
Thanks for all the input!
I'm still keeping an eye on CL & ebay.
Shawn
Maybe something along the lines of a West Wight Potter (http://www.westwightpotter.com/)?
If you aren't already, it might not be a bad idea to spend some time poking around the trailer sailor forum (http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/index.cgi).
Thanks, I have poked around abit over at TSF But . . . there format is a pain to read (maybe I just don't know how to open everything up at one time!)
I need something easy to launch from a trailer, and I'm sure within the 1st time or two out I'll have the basics down, I was taking my turn helping my cousin with the lines, and tiller, near the end he was just telling me what to do (except he didn't trust me I guess, bringing it back into the slip! or maybe there were rules?)
Any ideas on how to find other sailors in the Tucson, AZ area? Do you know of any?
I am just currently looking for a deal, that is within reach of getting, not fussy if it is "X" brand, but open to decent models, whatever comes up on the market.
Shawn
Go to the TSBB and post an intro- tell 'em who you are and where you are. There are several sailors over on TSBB who are in Arizona.
http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/index.cgi
Good group of folks
shawn - http://www.tucsonsailingclub.com/
I personally am not too particular about the type of boat (daysailor/cruiser vs. dinghy) right now. But I am in a unique situation. I agree with what godot says about getting something similar to your ultimate goal.
I'll be living in the Cincinnati Area for about 2 years (for a job) and in that time, as long as I can tow it/launch it with my car, I don't care what it is, just anything that sails and will get me out on the water on the weekends. so a dinghy is fine for me for my first boat, but I would certainly go for a 20something foot cruiser if it works out that way.
It sounds to me like you want a trailerable cruiser or daysailor type of boat.. I think you'll find that your criteria will limit your options enough so that you won't have a big decision to make. The trick is to lay out your criteria.
IE:
Fits your budget
is close enough for you to pick up
Trailerable (centerboard or swingkeel)
Includes trailer!
also includes the stuff you don't want to spend money on (like an outboard, sails, no damage, etc...)
If you do end up finding more than one that fits your needs, then you can decide based on recent maintenance and upgrades, how it looks, and whatever else.
edited (I thought that was in AZ not AR :/ )
anyway, happy searching.
Yeah, I'm in AZ (Arizona) Thanks for the Tucson link!
OK, I'll join the TSBB too!
Shawn
I went out last Sat on a Catalina 22, What fun! I think I would like something a tad smaller, and I just found a Capital Yachts Neptune 16' for sale, but can't find alot of info on them . . . whats your opinion of this little boat? Good . . . bad?
It will be my first boat, I probably would not keep it for more than 5 years . . .
Thanks,
Shawn
http://www.capitalyachts.info/neptune16/N16_Brochure.pdf Hope that this site will help you out. You said a 22 catalina was to big so I asummed that a 16 would be just right for you. Good luck on your sailing Hope you have a great time
1982 Neptune 16' Sailboat & Trailer - CA on eaby (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Boats_Sailboats__1982-Capital-Yachts-Neptune-16-Sailboat-Trailer-CA_W0QQitemZ110291060603QQddnZBoatsQQadnZSailboatsQQddiZ2831QQadiZ2794QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110291060603&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A10%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245)
Here is one on ebay, maybe just for comparisons sake.
anyway, looks like a good choice good luck!
(Edit to make link fit without scrolling)
That's a cute little boat!! And from a charity, she'll go cheap. That would be a perfect one to plop in my little lake....
Thanks for the link, I found that, but there is not much other info out there, I found somemore though from someone over at trailersailor . . .
Yes that is the one I'm looking at, on Ebay, up near the Bay . . . long trip from AZ, but . . . if the price is right (climbed quite a bit today!) . . . I may take a road trip!
Shawn
Shawn -
For comparison - This one on CL (http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/830645962.html)
Can't find very many others.. Which to me means its either rare enough that people are keeping them and not selling them, or maybe their just wasn't many made... I don't know.
but based on the little bit I have seen.. If you can get it for under $1000 I would call it a deal.
I say that mostly because,
A: thats pretty cheap for a trailerable weekender (of any sort).
B: it looks like a 'nice' boat,
C:it has everything you need (trailer, sails, motor....)
On top of all that, according to you, (D:) its not too far for you to pick up..
That one on CL doesn't show half of the equipment as the one on ebay does and its listing at $1100
I say go for it!
(edit) Thats assuming $1000 is within your budget, don't forget to add to the cost, gas money to pick it up, insurance (you need it on the road even if not for the boat itself). Registration (sales tax?) and that $149.99 'fee' is added to the end of the auction.
From what I have seen boatangels charity is reputable and fine to deal with. its just a matter of buying the boat unseen.
What I have found out is that the Neptune is a "descendant" from the Gloucester from Virginia, there were over 1500 made if I remember right.
I live only about 960 miles from the boat! I'm gonna look into what I need to register it for the ride home . . . to AZ. The boat in TX on cl is not much farther! Just hard to find what I want out here in the desert of Arizona!
If it is cheap (Under $500 my idea of "cheap") it will be a "deal" figuring in transporting it back home, I get about 28 - 30 mpg while empty, won't get more than 25 towing the trailer . . . more like 20 mpg though, that little 2.2 ltr four works hard up the hills . . . I dragged a 5X10 utility trailer loaded over 6' high with a 32' ladder strapped on top out from VT when I moved, (about 2500 pounds) plus my pickup was overloaded . . .I usually got 12 - 15 mpg! Third gear was my friend on the up hills, and usually kept it down to 55mph.
I'm comfortable with buying it "unseen" as Boat Angels requires pictures to be less than 2 weeks old, and if I get there and don't want it . . . they will give me my money back! But . . . I still have the 2.5 day trip to pay for!
Thanx for the encouragement,
Shawn
Well . . . the boat has gone out of my price range ($1200 total) So . . . if anybody knows of anything in that range down in my neck of the desert, let me know PLEASE!
I like the idea of small (16' - 18') as I'm not sure how much more my little 2wd 2.2l 4 cyl truck will be able to pull up out of a ramp. . . .
Thanks,
Shawn