sailFar.net

How many of us are ready to move up in size?  I know we have thought about it and would like to make it a sizable leap...maybe 40' to 45'.  Problem is simple...money...don't get me wrong we love our Cal 2-27 but when we go on other peoples larger boats we get that urge.  Well for now we will be bobing in our 27'footer, loving it,and posting here with all you nice folk.

----------------------------------------------------

This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.

S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27

Doesn't Bigger boat = bigger maintenance cost?
                            = more maintenance time?
                            = harder to handle short/single handed?
                            = more expensive to haul overland, if the need arises?
                            = higher slip fees?

It seems 25-30 ft is the sweet spot for a single/couple cruiser. Unless you cruise with sufficient crew aboard that the extra room is really necessary, of course.

I would love a PDQ 35' Catamaran.  But it is totally impractical for just me.

Edge,

When you say it is impractical do you mean handling alone?

I just moved up in size. I had a 26 ft Ariel, went to a 29 foot Islander.

The only reason I would move up to a 30 footer, would be a shower and a diesel motor.

As the wife and I will be living aboard at some point, she would be more comfortable with a built-in shower, I would want the diesel for distance and no gas on-board.

Zen,
We have thought of living aboard but won't for the same reasons, wife wants shower etc...

Skipper Dave,

      I feel that I could SAIL her alone.  I don't know that I would want to face the maintenance alone.  Alone, I have too much wonderlust and impulsiveness.  My Mac is great for that "problem" as I can hitch her up to my pick up or put her in a container for .....Australia, Lampura, etc.

     When I speak of maintenance, I am talking about a lot more than money.  I could probably handle that (I hope).  I am not that mechanically inclined (FAA Certified Mechanics always took care of the planes) and it is soooooo hard to find a gooood mechanic. :(

I have always loved small boats.You get 'comfortable' with them.Ya get to know them.My largest was a 34 @ 11000lbs. Anchored out in the Bahamas on windy nights(most are windy) I slept with one eye open.Gunk holing is NOT the same as with a 20-26fter...worry more and can't just 'push off' after grounding.Ground tackle is way smaller...that 35lb CQR is now not marginal ..but a STORM anchor!!Chain and rode is lighter(less$$)and easier to handle.Ya worry more docking not to mention paying more.We all have opinions...I strongly feel that you become way more comfortable,feel safer,have way less stress,have way more fun and explore way more on a small boat.PLUS way way less $$$.My lil ariel (25.5ft) is offshore capable(thanks Carl Alberg)has good storage,comfortable bunks,inside shower and shallow draft.A Beneteau 423 would be nice ..BUT I KNOW after I set my ego aside ,that the fun factor is better -smaller...yes....size DOES matter   My 2 cents...stay small and improve your boat

Well I'm glad I brought this up I feel a lot better.  Not that I didn't like our Cal 27, I like it very much, maybe it's one of those feelings that pass when you weigh everything.  Thanks Folks.

Frank: "inside shower" on your Ariel  ???

Is this the hang a curtain in the main saloon, stand in a bucket type of shower? For most females I know, this will get OLD QUICK!

BTW, nice job on the inside of your Ariel. That table is a great idea.
the v-berth door, looks like a roll-up.

When I had my Ariel, and was single, and living aboard, I made it so I could convert the two single berths into one double berth, for "guests" & myself...

Showers were done in the marina facilities. Clean, hot water most times, just the walk back from there to the boat was a drag in the rain or a COLD night.

I have sailed most sizes, from a 10 ft Snark to a 45 ft Freedom but I am convinced that if it's sailing you want to do, rather than moving under sail, smaller is better. The big boats sail you; as the boat gets smaller, you get to do more of the sailing.

I also am thrilled by the independence my small 23 ft Seaward offers - I can load her up on the trailer on a whim and a few hours later I have a completely different sailing venue.

At night, once you close your eyes my boat is no different from the monster in the next slip; the sunset looks the same from my cockpit and the beer tastes just as good too.  ;D

French...the louvered door is teak,not a 'roll up'?? There are pics of my shower mod on the ariel site.I put a sump in the floor of the forward cabin c/w pump and a wrap rd shower curtain so you can comfortably sit on the head (as in most larger yachts before 38ft or so)and use a pressurized hot water tank.Simple,comfortable and works.   PS...the view is as nice from the cocpit of a small boat as a large one.

Paulus got some good Karma from me for that one. :D

Ah, Frank. I see it all now. I remember when you first had the beginning pictures posted. WOW what a great job you did!!!  :o

We think alike seems like. I did a setup like that on my main saloon for sleeping. I had been thinking of a like arangment as yours for the shower on my Islander. Now I know where to get the flex line...sweet I just need to figure out to do the drainage. I figured a pump spayer as the holding tank, which i can install easy enough.

Hi All, this is something we are going back and forth about.   We have a Catalina C25 and it is nimble, can take many seas here on the great lakes, is roomy for a 25 footer.  Now that our three daughters are away in college, we started thinking about selling the big house and getting a condo.  We could then travle at will.  Well my wife saw a Nauticat 44 and said "fork the condo!!!".   So do we go for the big boat or get the condo and maybe move up to a 32 pearson or similar?  Who knows?

Being a logical person, and knowing things change...I would go for the condo and a 30ft. You can travel as much as you want, and still take a break when you want..
I always like the have your cake and eat it too idea... 8)

I've cruised on boats from a converted 16' Windmill to a 47' Vagabond.  Even bought and refit a 51' Formosa.  By the time I was finished with the refit (I did all the work myself) I finally realized that I could either own a real cool boat OR go cruising, not both.  Sold the big boat.  Figured out what it was that I really wanted and bought the perfect boat to do it with.  It just happened that she was 29' long.
Granted, it was nice sitting in a little cove and living in what can only be described as a floating palace, looking all shippy and salty, but those coves were alot fewer and far between than they are now.  I also tended to stay longer as getting underway was a major undertaking.  Now I can be ready to go in about 10 minutes and don't even need to start the engine. 
Sailing into a slip becomes pretty tricky with a 47' boat, not impossible, but you sure make alot of people nervous!

I was tempted yesterday by a terrific deal on a well found 30' boat that I have highly regarded and looked at for some time.

The boat needed some work (don't they all) but not too much work.  Price was less then a third of the market, and I could have written a check for it free and clear......

  So, I lost a nights sleep.  The owner is a great guy, spent time with he and his wife.... toured the boat.

  My first mate and I both looked at the extra 4 feet, the ton's of storage space we do not have, the head WITH A DOOR, a real galley, all the nice stuff that a 30' boat brings that even a salty 26' boat does not......

  We both came to the same conclusion.

We are sticking with what we have.

  Now, my plans include long distance, and spending quite a bit of time on this boat.  I thought I was looking for something a little bit bigger

  The perfect deal drops into my lap.... and I find that compared to what I have the extra 4 feet is not worth the cost/maintenance/ease of handling/little bit of extra draft(about 7"more)/little taller mast(4or5') etc.

  I can't explain it other then to say that I guess I believe that while a 30' boat is by no means 'too big' I like the small boat/long distance ideal.

  Kinda cool huh?

Hip hip HURRAY !!!!!   

Quote from: Frank on December 28, 2005, 09:00:15 PM
Hip hip HURRAY !!!!!   

Thanks Frank,

  Somehow I knew you would get it. I am kinda surprised myself, since my plans started to include more and more of the horizon I was thinking bigger.....

  Glad there are great examples like your boat to help me see all the space there is to be had aboard already.

  Can't offer you a cold one, so I gave you a Karma point instead.  ;D

I sail a Cal 25 of 76 vintage - this year I hope to do a few more of the repairs it needs (scrape and repaint the interior, add some foam to the cushions and recover those etc)  BUT I still want a bigger boat.  Thinking a Bill Garden design in the 30-32 ft range.  I think that will still be a size that is easy to single hand yet has enuff room for any guest and all of my toys. I need the room for SCUBA gear, kayak, maybe a small sailing dingy or windsurfer and my bicycle - I mean really why are we going to these places to just sit in the boat and sip on rum drinks.

As for the Cal - I doubt I'll sell it if I get a bigger boat UNLESS I got something that was easier to transport or a full boogie race boat - it's the right size for the little lake I have in my back yard

Capt. Teach, Welcome Aboard,

      I always enjoyed what you had to say on L&A.  You have much knowledge.  I hope you will continue to share it.  We are lucky to have you here. 

"Somehow I knew you would get it. I am kinda surprised myself, since my plans started to include more and more of the horizon I was thinking bigger....."

Hmmm, I understand...however for me, the extra 3ft (plus) over my 26ft ( 26 to 29 ) was well worth it.

What really matters is if you are pleased with what you have. Sound like you are, Cool!

Welcome aboard 'Capt Teach'....although I do have a dingy and 2 sets of scuba gear on board a small boat....your statemant..."are we to just sit in the boat and sip on rum drinks" don't sound all that bad today..... as I look out at SNOW!!!

Quote from: The Edge on December 29, 2005, 12:02:48 PM
Capt. Teach, Welcome Aboard,

      I always enjoyed what you had to say on L&A.  You have much knowledge.  I hope you will continue to share it.  We are lucky to have you here. 

Shhh dont tell too many folks  - they might get the idea I really do know something ;)  -  Thanks for the kind werds

I think the only way I would get a larger boat would be if somehow I happened to be shipping with a First Mate of the long-term female variety. ;D Then I might go a bit larger, but not a lot - 35' *max*. One of the things I like so much about the lifestyle is that you really can have less, while living more. See Amorous' post for a case in point.

Antoine de St Exupery said it best (I'll have to paraphrase, since I don't recall the exact wording):

"Perfection is not achieved when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more which can be taken away."

Einstein said something very similar.

Time has shown me that I have better life-experiences when I pay more attention to life and people, and less to the "things" in my life.

If you allow me a little early-morning philosophizing... It is probably no coincidence that almost every religion/spiritual following has a tenet along these lines - ie; getting nearer to Deity is accomplished in part by renouncing "worldly" things.

KISS principle - Wisdom of the Ancients (and of many successful long-distance, small boat cruisers). ;)

There is beauty in simplicity

....zen

In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of the Tao, every day something is dropped.

...Tao Te Ching

Embrace simplicity.
...Lao Tsu


Enjoy the plain and simple.
Find that greatness in the small.
...Lao Tsu

theres more room in my boat than I know what to do with.I can and will put an enclosed  shower in the existing head area. I even had a woman stay with me for over a year and she will move rite back in  if I let her.I wont let her stay permanently and I will leave it to your adult rated imagination as to why.Theres all sorts of guys in this marina that would love to have her move in too.those kind of things dont just happen in the movies, or the soap operas. and it happened more than once.so there.a 29 or so foot boat is all one  little guy like me  ( 5'5")needs

My wife Ruth and I are presently shopping. Our hopes are to find a nice Hardin 44 or something similar. Perhaps a Nauticat 44.

I remember looking at a Nauticat 33 years ago at a boat show...I was REAL impressed!!! LOADS of room..HUGE aft cabin and real nice wood finishs.Beautiful boats!! Why a 44?? Seems like a LOT of boat.

If you are serious about going up in size, this is one to give consideration to:

http://www.pbase.com/sailrosita/rosita

"Rosita" is an Allied Princess 36, and Garry *really* knows what he is doing with boats, he just finished her up last year, spent less than a year aboard when his job (nukular enjineer) took him from Fl to Ca. Now he is selling her, instead of having her sit for 4 years til he gets back. Bummer for him, great deal for someone. He's asking $47,500 I think.

Good thread.  ;D

Frank;

QuoteBUT I KNOW after I set my ego aside ,that the fun factor is better -smaller...yes....size DOES matter   My 2 cents...stay small and improve your boat

  Kurt;

QuoteAntoine de St Exupery said it best (I'll have to paraphrase, since I don't recall the exact wording):

"Perfection is not achieved when there is nothing more to add, but rather when there is nothing more which can be taken away."

Einstein said something very similar.

Time has shown me that I have better life-experiences when I pay more attention to life and people, and less to the "things" in my life.

If you allow me a little early-morning philosophizing... It is probably no coincidence that almost every religion/spiritual following has a tenet along these lines - ie; getting nearer to Deity is accomplished in part by renouncing "worldly" things.

KISS principle - Wisdom of the Ancients (and of many successful long-distance, small boat cruisers). 

Zen;

QuoteThere is beauty in simplicity

....zen

In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of the Tao, every day something is dropped.

...Tao Te Ching

Embrace simplicity.
...Lao Tsu


Enjoy the plain and simple.
Find that greatness in the small.
...Lao Tsu

Great stuff  ;D




 

Faith...thanks for bringing this thread back...timely for me.We all do it...ya figure out a " TRUTH "..learn a lesson......then do a 180.Don't know if I was getting caught up in the 'deal',tripping on my ego or just  forgetting all the things I have come to learn....I was thinking 'bigger' again...read over the posts again and thought "what the h.. am I thinking....I sail alone 80% of the time and my lil Flicka will be 'perfect'......just needed a reminder and like the ole saying goes.."when the student is ready-the teacher will appear"...and there were these posts gain. Thanks

 :o :o

IS this the same Frank who was saying "Flicka...a perfect cruiser"
thinking about a bigger boat  ??? ???

yes, but he seems to have come to his senses...

I have owned a Tayana 37, two Westsail 32's, a Bristol 24, a Vega 27, a Bristol 30 and a Contessa 27 or so.  Now I have my final boat, a NorSea 27.  I will not go back to a bigger boat, been there-done that.

When at sea, you never use the shower inside the boat; when in port, you use the marina shower.  Storage on a small boat is less but you can get around that by smart use of space.

I leave for my world cruise Dec 31 on my NorSea 27

nice ! U have a way to keep us updated from time 2 time  8) ?

A quote off this site...."satisfaction is desiring what you already have"....when I just got the "bigger boat" syndrom...I went and spent a few hours on Jubilee.....I'm very satisfied !!

Quote from: castawaysailor on July 20, 2006, 08:10:17 PM
I have owned a Tayana 37, two Westsail 32's, a Bristol 24, a Vega 27, a Bristol 30 and a Contessa 27 or so.  Now I have my final boat, a NorSea 27.  I will not go back to a bigger boat, been there-done that.

When at sea, you never use the shower inside the boat; when in port, you use the marina shower.  Storage on a small boat is less but you can get around that by smart use of space.

I leave for my world cruise Dec 31 on my NorSea 27

  Outstanding!

  Yes, please keep us posted.  What have you done to prepair?
What kind of modifications?  route?  etc?

My previous boats were outfitted with all the bells and whistles; this one is going to be simple and safe.

Preparation:  15 yrs sailing experience, about 1000 miles offshore and many 1000's near shore; licensed captain; worked on my own boats for 15 yrs; downsized to a boat that fits my needs; helped my children become adults so I can now be a kid; divested myself of other mates (mostly their choice but I will remain single to be able to leave free and clear); saved a little money and will earn the rest on the way; etc.

Where to go:  I will either leave Florida for the South Pacific or go across the pond to England, Norway/Sweden and Russia.  After that, continue cruising goin to Patagonia, Alaska, Indian Ocean, etc.

 :o


Harley Harlson is going to sail his 8 foot "Sea Biscuit" around the world. Solo. Non-stop. It's now been a a few weeks since Harley's article, Impossible Dream, and his Photo Album were published in Duckworks Magazine. As expected, readers have had a lot of questions to ask. "Sea Biscuit" is being prepared for her sojourn so he has not had much time to answer. With that in mind, we offer the interview below:




http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/06/outings/harley/index.htm

Hi Zen,

Along the same lines I happen to be reading "Three Years in a 12 Foot Boat" By Stephe G. Ladd.  This fellow started at the head of the Mississippi down to the, to Panama, across to the Pacific then South along the Panamanian and
Columbian coast to Benventura, then across South American on the Rio Meta (north of the Amazon) then onto Trinidad, through the Caribean ending in Florida. Some short lengths involved transposrting his boat by truck or freighter. This is a very engaging book, beautifully written, I enthousiastically recommend it.

OTOH the character in the link below, "Harley", seems a bit suicidal frankly. He's hoping to circumnavigate alone in his 13 Ft boat that he's built from scrap (non marine) lumber. I sincerely wish him the best of luck but his plan doesn't seem well thought out to me.

BTW in my own family I have two cousins who (successfully) sailed from Israel to Florida in a 23 ft wooden sailboat. (in the early 1960's)

Oded

Quote from: oded kishony on July 27, 2006, 08:50:00 PM
Hi Zen,

Along the same lines I happen to be reading "Three Years in a 12 Foot Boat" By Stephe G. Ladd.  This fellow started at the head of the Mississippi down to the, to Panama, across to the Pacific then South along the Panamanian and
Columbian coast to Benventura, then across South American on the Rio Meta (north of the Amazon) then onto Trinidad, through the Caribean ending in Florida. Some short lengths involved transposrting his boat by truck or freighter. This is a very engaging book, beautifully written, I enthousiastically recommend it.

OTOH the character in the link below, "Harley", seems a bit suicidal frankly. He's hoping to circumnavigate alone in his 13 Ft boat that he's built from scrap (non marine) lumber. I sincerely wish him the best of luck but his plan doesn't seem well thought out to me.

BTW in my own family I have two cousins who (successfully) sailed from Israel to Florida in a 23 ft wooden sailboat. (in the early 1960's)

Oded

Oded,
I'ii check out that book.
as far as Harley, hmm well. :-\ I wish him luck. He will need that, prayers and a lot more.  The human spirit is capable of pulling off a lot of things. This maybe one of them. However he should put somemore thought into planning, some sea trials, test runs, etc, before heading out in secret because he does not want the USCG to stop him.  It seems from reading more of the articule that he is more about setting some new record than the journey itself.  :-\  He read somebody was going to do around the world ina 9ft homemade boat, he got all fired up to do one better... :(
Seems like a bad way to start IMHO. Oh and it is a 8ft homemade nonmarine grade boat.  :D

Hi Zen,

I'm fascinated by the goal of designing a small boat for long distance, singlehanded sailing. I can see various glaring problems with his deisgn, as well as his plan. One of which is that he will cook alive in his entombed space when he's in the tropics. Another is the quirky sail plan. A wishbone mast at the aft end of the boat with two furled sailes terminating at the bow.  It seems that he has an awful lot of the wieght in the aft section but the hull doesn't show any additional boyancy in the aft section. It'll be interesting to see how he does.

Oded

That's actually part of the technical design genius of the boat. The weight aft helps lift the sails into the fast higher winds. :D

That rig sounds somewhat like the concept of the "Mast-aft rig" (http://www.runningtideyachts.com/sail/), which I personally find to be an extremely interesting concept - to the point that I've spoken on the telephone with Brian about it... :)

Thoughts: Maybe someone on a 44'er thinks I'm a glutton for punishment, in the same manner that I think maybe Harley is... :D ;)

Additionally, this: I sail for the pleasure of sailing; attempts like this one are simply sailing for a record, and I have no interest in that at all. Tristan Jones did that, with his "Incredible Voyage". In fact, the whole point of that journey of his was to set a record which couldn't be beaten, as a way to 'protest' such behaviour.

Different strokes! Anyway, I hope Harley does well, survives, and even enjoys his trip. :)

lol and we all know Tristan was a REALLY TRUTHFUL guy about his exploits- No embellishments or total fabrications whtsoever ;D ;D

But he did write exciting tales. We always have enjoyed the reads.

 :o

oh , we have a new guy here,

welcome to the board!  ;D

Quote from: CapnK on July 28, 2006, 11:20:07 AM
That rig sounds somewhat like the concept of the "Mast-aft rig" (http://www.runningtideyachts.com/sail/), which I personally find to be an extremely interesting concept - to the point that I've spoken on the telephone with Brian about it... :)

From the article:

Quote
It didn't get built and neither did the rig. Like a bear, it went into hibernation.

Why not?  Did he say?  It seems that he should be able to build a prototype, smaller than the original 55' design.

It is an interesting concept, but I do have my own questions about it.

Good Old Boat had a picture of a rig very similar. The mast didn't lean but was placed practically on the transom. I don't recall seeing any boom attached. The boat it was pictured on had wing like extensions midship. I suppose you could hike out on them. As I recall it was on an apx 25ft boat.

I've sometimes wondered if it would make sense to have some parts of the sail be inflatable-just a way of gaining rigidity with minimal addition of weight.

Oded Kishony

Quote from: CapnK on July 28, 2006, 11:20:07 AM
That rig sounds somewhat like the concept of the "Mast-aft rig" (http://www.runningtideyachts.com/sail/)

Stumbled across this discussion on a designer's forum today:

Mast Aft Rig (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10120)

Some are skeptical that it will be either strong enough, give proper luff tension or would really make any difference on any point but close hauled.  Also, they note that (a) the concept HAS been built (Bolger designed one) and (b) the concept re-crops every 10 years or so.  Apparently, it is nothing new, and SOMETHING has stopped it from catching on.

Hey guys,

Yes I have been lurking about and love the chatter about getting bigger boats. But since you all already have bigger boats than me I find it quite funny. After sailing my Com-Pac 16 a handful of times with one overnight with my daughter the 'bigger boat bug' has bitten me as well. If I ever want to get the wife to join us I will need more room. I was looking at the Com-Pac 19 but then was thinking why not just go straight to the CP23. A buddy of mine has one and I'm hoping to get out on it soon and check it out. The 19 has a 2 foot draft and the 23 has a 2 foot 3 draft so there is no problem there.

Whatever to do?!

-Kevin

CapnK used to sail the ComPac 23 Epiphany, and I'm sure he will be happy to answer any questions might have....

IF he ever returns to this forum!!!!   ;)

(KR, hope the delivery is going well and you are safe)

Arrgh! Well, not on that delivery, obviously... The owner told me we had a deal, and that I'd be doing it, but then turned out not to be a man of his word. Of course, this was after I had already rearranged my life for 2 weeks, packed, secured crew and charts, etc... - and No, I don't have a high opinion of the "gorram bastage", after that! ;)

Just been busy working for the bills, and working on the boat...

Hey Zen - Thx for the welcome, smartypants! ;)

Kevin - Having seen/been on them side-by-side, the CP23 is *way* bigger than the 16, which would be much nicer for family outings, and is a nice boat for coastwise work. I never trailered mine, always kept her in a slip, so I don't know how that would affect your sailing time, which would be a consideration...

If you want to see some figures comparing the 19 and 23 boats, try the Sail Calculator (http://image-ination.com/sailcalc.html).

Based on the info there, the 23 looks to be perhaps a faster, more seaworthy boat than the 19 - better capsize ratio, comfort factor, higher SA/Disp ratio, etc...

That said - If I see you talking about the CP33/35, I'm gonna get worried... ;D

Seems that CapnK has the good sense to be a Firefly/Serenity fan.  :D

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on August 13, 2006, 11:46:02 AM
Seems that CapnK has the good sense to be a Firefly/Serenity fan.  :D

Browncoats Unite! :)

Space pirates are *cool*! 8) Thinking about it, Mal and crew were spacefolk much like us sailorfolk - their ship "Serenity" is pretty small as far as spaceships go, and the characters all have an independent attitude, like many of the people here... :)

For those who don't know, "Firefly" was a TV series by Josh Whedon, sort of a "space western", and it was a really, really good show that was only on for 1 season. Due to a rabid fanbase, it was eventually made into a movie, "Serenity", which would be better to watch after you have first seen the TV series (it's on DVD). I haven't owned a TV in over 2 years, but for pure entertainment, this was the best show I'd seen in a long time, and I highly recommend it. :)

(http://www.lacoctelera.com/myfiles/adastra/serenity.png)

Lil Wednesday rocked in the Movie, but was too little nnot impressive on the TV show.
I D/L the movie off Limewire.com and watched it on the Computer. VEry Cool!

Bad Zen... are you openly admitting to pirating the movie... The horror...I hear the MPAA is going to be visiting you soon. 

 :o
Whaaat!! you mean limewire  is not legal!!!!  :o
!(&@#^# those lying !*#Y#^#)
that is disgraceful to mislead an innocent trusting upstanding forth right citizen. I'm SHOCKED.

ohhoh, I think something is wrong with my hard drive... I'm losing all my data even as I type. I may have to reformat everythin...got to go  :'(

Zen, anchor out past the 12 Mile Line.   ;D

But then how does he get his broadband internet connection???

Greetings from 12.5 miles out. THe weather is nice out here, a little choppy but ok. Now that my harddrive has been reformated totally losing all my programs and old enterainment files. I have a totally clean computer harddrive and access to the internet via satililte. After getting rid those bugs and umm, unspeakable downloading software from those survy dogs at "that" site. I will now be logging on from out here until the end of my extended vacation  8). With all the security problems there in the states, I think this is the safest location until our wonderful President has successfully defeated the terrorist threat and once again made our country the home of the free, safe and secure place that it once was. I'm sure that he in his greatness will have this settled soon.
until later this is Zen coming to you from 12.75 mile out somewhere in the Pacific on my small heading south boat.  ;)

fair winds

Careful Zen,

  The Napster police are working with homeland security and the men in black helocopters to capture your hard drive and make sure no unothorized pixels are displayed......

...They are right behind you. 

Look out!

:P



;D

*splash...*
oops my bad, darn slippery fingers, my harddrive just fell overboard , here at some unknown spot in the Pacific 15 miles out... I guess I'll just have to buy a new one...shucks 8)

oh, oh is that some big whale that just glupped it down as it was falling

on it's five miles from the bottom journey... ;D

Notice To Mariners: 14 Aug 2006, Pacific Ocean, 15 nm from somewhere

Due to the magnet present in a hard drive lost overboard, local magnetic variation is 32 degrees, PA.  Refer to future editions of NtM for more information as it becomes available on this hazard to navigation.

;D ;D

What hath dog wrought??

Zen??? You did not hit your MOB on your GPS and go back to try to save it??  What is up with that???  It was not wearing its personal floatation device while offshore??  Bad boy!!

Kevin- I have a 1988 Compac 27/2 and love it!!  Lots of room although, you cannot trailer it.  Some picts on the gallery of her.  Makes for a great small family boat.  I am a huge fan of Compac's.  Solidly built.   
My 27/2 does however still fall in the category of Small boats so I can continue to hang out with you dudes on Sailfar.   ;)  That is the real reason I do not move up in size.  I would miss you all.   :)

Thanks guys for your input on my 3-foot-itis. I'm still looking around and we will see. Perhaps another season with the 16. We are absolutely enjoying our "Little Sailboat"! ...and we don't have to worry about internet access.  ;)

If you are interested in reading about our adventures so far aboard 'Floridaze' ...check the link in my sig.

-Kevin

Kevin,

  You might want to spend some time sailing a C-19 before you buy.  We have 2 in my marina, and they seem a bit undercanvased to me.

  FWIW

Hoping to get a look at a 19 this weekend that is for sale. I was going to go out on my buddy's 23 today but had to cancel that for now. I'm sitting here still trying to get the family ready to go launch 'Floridaze' for a little afternoon sail.  :)

PS. Since I am used to the 16 being under canvased I wonder if I could tell on the 19? I would think it would sail better with the full mast rig jib instead of my fractional on the 16.



-Kevin

Got to go aboard a CP23 and wow did it look and feel big. I also looked at a 19 yesterday which seems to be more my speed. I'm going to look at another 19 this evening. There just happens to be two for sale close by.

-kevin

Still owning my 21 ft "starter boat" I feel like it will be a while before I feel like I have outgrown it and am ready to move up to the next stage that will be somthing that is probably between 27 and 33 ft.
My original plan 3 years ago was a progression of  21/30/40 somthing but that is subject to change.  I know that the next one has to have more creature comforts. = enclosed head with shower, decent galley, a real berth to sleep in. and trim that is a few steps up from feeling like I am sailing in a pickup camper shell.
The good point of having the 21 is that it is paid for and everything that goes on it is paid for.  it isn't fancy but it is a capable boat that is up to way more than my current skill level allows.
A major point with me has always been  "have a boat that you own, not one that owns you".

All of those points are good ones, Rob. :)

I have to admit, I was mostly attracted to the idea of an under 30' boat for financial reasons. I'd had a 28' Morgan when I lived in Key Largo, but I had my own dock and was able to just go sailing whenever the weather was nice. After that, I had (partial ownership) in a 35' Coronado, and loved the space.

Now, having bought Ariel #50 from Frank, and having put over 300 miles under the keel, I have to say, I LOVE the convenience of a smaller boat. Without going into the financial aspects of moving a smaller boat around, I've found that I'm enjoying the smaller boat a lot more.

It's much easier to creep up into a protected inlet or (along the Okeechobee waterway) an oxbow in the river.
If I don't like where I'm anchored, it's a breeze to haul anchor and move!
Even while motoring along, if the breeze picks up, I'll haul the main and motorsail, since bringing it back down is so easy!
Keeping her clean (a chore on inland waterways!) is a lot easier. Much less deck to scrub
Squeezing into the fuel dock :) 'nuff said!

Anyway, I'm having the time of my life on this "trip home"... even with the 300+ mile detour :D

Thanks Kurt and Frank :)

I know quite a few people with larger boats that don't sail as often as I do, because they need to find crew to go out.  While I enjoy sailing with a crew, I find I don't need to have crew aboard. :D  Sometimes, it is very nice to just go out by myself.

Grog for Adam... :D Right on, bro - glad that the trip is working out so well! I knew you'd like the boat once you got to travel with/on her, especially after Frank had done such a great job getting her fixed up for just that sort of thing! ;D


Ona related note: Capt Smollett/John has been working behind the scenes on the sailFar wiki, so this is a good thread in which to introduce it. We'll have it up and "live" this coming week.

Basically, the wiki will be a web-based, user-modifiable encyclopedia of sailFar philosophy-related topics, place where we can compile all of this information related to "small boat, long distance" cruising that we share back and forth here in the Forum.

The idea/purpose is that it can eventually serve as a database-type resource for folks who are interested in what we are doing/have done, a more 'information specific' type of resource, as opposed to the 'community-based' resource which our Forum is. I don't know if I am describing it well - maybe someone else can do a better job of that, or you can just wait and see what it is this coming week... :)

I have owned up to a 37 footer and now have my NorSea 27; no desire to move up again; prefer to be able to handle my boat alone in all conditions.

Quote from: castawaysailor on October 28, 2006, 05:11:29 PM
no desire to move up again; prefer to be able to handle my boat alone in all conditions.

Grog for Castaway!

I think that single statement sums up "The SailFar Philosophy" as succinctly as it can be said.

Quote from: Captain Smollett on October 28, 2006, 06:23:40 PM

Grog for Castaway!

woohooo! make that a margarita, on the rocks with salt ;D

Quote from: AdriftAtSea on October 28, 2006, 07:32:38 PM
But grog is a much more manly drink... LOL.  ;)

okay, make mine a double

Shaken or stirred? :)

Welcome aboard, castaway!

Those NS27's, nice looking boats.

Quote from: CapnK on October 29, 2006, 08:04:07 PM
Shaken or stirred? :)

Welcome aboard, castaway!

Those NS27's, nice looking boats.

Thanks for the welcome; always shake a margarita, never stir

All,

  I found one area where 'big boats' excell.

Take a look at ==>This thread<== (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f91/hens-on-board-6858.html#post66170) on the cruisers forum.   ;D

I came across these comments last night while reading one particular google group on sailing.  Here are a couple of quotes from one of the (many) "pundits" on how we should ALL live/sail.  I think these sum up pretty nicely what it is we small boat sailors "rebel" against.

Quote

we don't take {boat name} offshore to do anything serious without 6 sailors aboard, 2 per watch section, 3 watch sections so you can get some REST under any conditions.

He's talking about a 40-plus footer.  If you've got the room for 6 people (and their provisions/gear), I guess that's okay.  But larger boats = larger problems, too.  He completely ignores that.  Let's see some more from this same commenter:

Quote

...inexperience can be remedied.  But, alas, ABILITY cannot. 
A 40' cruising sailboat is a handful for a 250 pound, able male.  I'm
sure glad I sail on one with roller furling main and mizzen.  Sailing the
{boat name} in bad conditions where you had to take the main down and lash
it to the rolling, rocking boom was a handful for 2 big people, not one. 
Lazy jacks are really nice until there's a gale.  The finest thing about
{boat name} roller furling mast is its GEARBOX.  I can furl the main,
alone, hanging on for dear life strapped to the base of the mast cranking
in a sail at full load.  Coming into the wind, possibly rolling over
because that's not necessarily coming into the wave train, isn't
necessary at all.  Roller furling mains make sail handling for less
experienced hands just so simple.  It's not necessary for them to figure
out which line reefs which section and how to set it under pressure. 
Just roll the damned thing into the mast until what's left outside
relieves the pressure trying to rip it off the boat and that, although
not really "nautical" to brag about at the yacht club bar, way good
enough in 40 knots of wind and 12' seas.  Try it sometime...even you
diehard traditionalists.

For a 120 pound female teacher who has had all the sailing classes in the
best schools in the nation....a 40' cruising sailboat in a gale is a
recipe for disaster.  She's just not big enough, weighs enough and is
strong enough to do it.  It's not politically correct, it's truth.  Even
standing at the wheel, to say nothing of going forward to do anything
about reefing the main and furling the ripping jib, she won't be strong
enough for long.  I'm 255 and moved pianos for a living for many years. 
I'm not "physically fit", but I'm strong.  Lifting an end to a 900 pound
piano became easy.  I cannot haul the wheel back and forth fighting to
hold any kind of course with the swells against the rudder for hours and
hours to keep the boat off those reefs.  My strong arms get so sore and
my back in so much pain, I'm sure glad there are 5 other big souls to
relieve me.  What about the "cruising couple"?  The man is totally
exhausted.  His arms have given out.  The 120 pound teacher must now
stand at the helm, hauling the wheel back and forth in a losing battle
with the rudder and course.  She has no more relief aboard.  She's
DOOMED!  Face it...it's true!

But, every one of you know who the "dock hermits" are who go off way out
there for adventure, him and her, in their fancy sailing clothes and
bushy beards trying to look like sailors of 1852.  They'd rather die
first than take some really strong 20-somethings with them who know how
to sail, for hours and hours if necessary....

The boat manufacturers are also to blame.  We've no place to SLEEP those
boys on a 35' Endeavour, except on the cabin deck or that little cubby
hole of a quarterberth.  Berths are ugly, especially berths that are
USEFUL rolling 35 degrees over so you don't get thrown out.  That won't
do.....

Good enough?  Amazing how many survive out of just luck.

He's not the only one. From another commenter:

Quote

I don't see what is the big deal about getting a
couple of crewmembers to go on the longer
passages.  Worst case, you spend a little more on
the provisions.

Personally, I decided some time ago that to do the
Pacific I want at least four capable people on the
boat.  ...  Only two people on the boat is too much work for me.  I'm
cruising to have fun!

And finally, back to our original commentator:

Quote

You two shouldn't even leave the slip without at LEAST TWO, Strong YOUNG
hands who know how to sail it without you.

To a point, I suppose these comments are true enough.  They are talking about BIG boats (by our standards).  The problem I have with these comments, though, is the absoluteness of them.  I guess I am just bristling at the thought of someone (with 39,000+ messages on Google Groups, by the way) telling me/others how they SHOULD do something.

To offer a counter example, I would suggest he read one of the many, many accounts (in print and on the web) of "we picked up crew who turned out to be less than helpful" or even a hindrance.  We all balance risks.  This guy assumes we are not 'smart' because we choose a different path than him.

If you want to read the whole thread:

rec.boats.cruising on Google Groups (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.cruising/browse_thread/thread/fb58ca0f73742e59/6dc272f9f2db9547?hl=en&)

HUH??? I guess he's never heard of Dame Ellen Macarthur eh?  ;D

5 foot 2 and racing an open 60 round the world? single hand?

Never heard of vanes or auto pilots either has he.

I try not to poison my mind with rec.boats.cruising.  It is sad, but so many internet forums eventually fall into personal attacks and argument games.  I am always glad to find a small group of people dedicated to simple cruising, like in this forum.   

It's so off base it actually sounds fishy to me...I'm not so sure the guy is on the level.    But, who the heck knows.

I know one thing; a few years ago I was 'designing' a boat around six people aboard full time.  It was upper 40's, 48 iirc, and sleeping 6 (with personal gear and other 'space') is VERY difficult on a boat that size.  I'm sure it can be done - shoot, I KNOW it can, but this guy makes it sound like putting six able seaman aboard a 40 footer is no big deal.

My point is his solution itself presents its own set of challenges.  That is, IF he is talking about something like a crossing.  My gut tells me he means even an overnight (or two) offshore passage.

Different strokes, I guess.  Always fun to identify closed minds.  Sailing is cool partly because there are 60 gillion ways to solve the same problem(s).

Keep in mind, at least underway there will be plenty of berths available... can't have less then 2 on watch at any time don't you know?   :P

You're all doomed

DOOMED I tell 'ya

Pick up some crew already, you bunch of dock hermits

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/commanderpete/dead_calm0002.jpg)

Quote from: skylark on March 07, 2007, 09:50:31 AM
.  I am always glad to find a small group of people dedicated to simple cruising, like in this forum.   

HEY!! who you calling simple!!  ;D

I can't think of five people that I could stand to be stuck on a boat with for more than a few days.  As Norm has said about the C&C 38 Melissa—Sails 6, feeds 4, sleeps 2... and that's probably true for any passage of a decent length.

I prefer to not have to rely on in-mast furling and electric winches...as they're just more stuff to fail, and what do you do if they go south on you in bad weather... it can be a very dicey thing when that happens.

Also, the story in the OP...what about autopilots, or more likely windvanes.  Windvanes work wonderfully in heavier air, which tends to cause most autopilots trouble.  Sailing long-distances without some form of self-steering is like committing yourself to some outer level of heck.... not fun...

Quote from: Cmdr Pete on March 07, 2007, 10:25:42 AM
You're all doomed

DOOMED I tell 'ya

Pick up some crew already, you bunch of dock hermits

(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/commanderpete/dead_calm0002.jpg)

I'll take the one on the right, thanks. You can have the other.

The first post just piles on the stupid, really. At about a third of the way in you just want to shake him and say "Dude, the problem is you have a poop boat!" If you need to monster your boat into doing what it needs to do it is either broken or designed by Roberts.

I have been out on my 26 in 42knots consistent with much higher gusts, it was certainly an adventure, but at no time was steering an impossible trevail...balanced rudders work. Here's a thought, having a non mast furling main means that the sail has better shape and works in a wing like way as a sail long after the thing on his boat has become a big bag of wind trying to tip the boat over. You want to not have to use all your strength to furl it, try changing course to the wind for a minute, you twit! His comment on "releiving the danger of someone not knowing which line to pull in order to reef the main..."  Yeah well....I think the term "wanker" comes to mind.

P.S In our big wind sail, we had up the number 1 headsail when we got clobbered rounding a headland. We have a downhaul fitted to the hanked on sail, so dropping it was a matter of about 6 seconds and the downhaul held it on the deck so we did not need to go forwards. The boat was somewhat overpowered with the full main, but mostly only out of control in the gusts when it rounded up. It is the only time we ever used the jiffy reefing system in earnest and went down to the second reef (We have a masthead rig with a fairly small main), the boat stood up and behaved beautifully. We decided to sail to the waves for the smoothest possible ride, trimmed our sail accordingly and rode out the blow in about an hour and a half. No damage, no drama. If we had insisted on sticking to our original course like we were on railroad tracks the waves would have diced and minced us...or at least shaken out our fillings.

Sailing is not like driving along a highway with concrete walls directing traffic.


Alex.

Unfortunately Alex, many of the people, especially the ones who come over from powerboats, don't seem to understand that a sailor has to work with the wind and seas... and that to do otherwise is both dangerous and foolish. 

Well I guess the good news is that if these guys won't leave the dock with out 4 to 6 crew, we shouldn't have to worry about running into them out there very often.

The other thought that strikes me is, maybe he just isn't a very good sailor and needs all that help?

::)

Captain:
Thanks for reminding us that fear is a superb brake.

The fun thing about Team Sailfar is that we have found the brake-release.

Spring is here, we're going sailing.  See you out there.

Norman

ps... after I finish painting the living room!

Today while pondering "insure or don't insure," I realized another angle on how large our attachement to "stuff" grows.  I thought, "okay, so what if I lose the boat?"  I considered this question from the perspective of "what have I really lost."

Now, I am assuming loss of the boat, but no serious injury or loss of life in the following.

The first thing I thought in answer to that last question is "not much, really."  This is not to say that I don't love my boats - I do.  But if I were to lose my boat, I'd be out a few thousand for the boat herself (hull, rig, sails), a couple of anchors and some odds and ends.  Not much, in the grand scheme of things.

Then it hit me:  "Thank goodness I don't have a lot of STUFF on the boat that I feel attached to."  Electronic gizmos and trinkets to make life "easier" that ultimately would make life more stressful because I would be in constant fear (at some level) of losing that 'stuff.'  When we spend money on something, some gadget, we seem to form an attachment with it - it is "ours" and that bond is generally not taken lightly.  Do I want to be attached to the "stuff" on my boat?

In short, I realized that if the worse should happen and I somehow lose the boat, I want my biggest sense of loss to be FOR THE BOAT - not the "stuff" she carries.

Fair Winds.

Interesting thoughts.

When I was made to abandon my vessel last year I had about 15 minutes to come to grips with the fact that I was loosing everything I had worked towards for years and everything I was hoping to achieve in the future, not to mention, my home.  I don't have much stuff on board (it is hard to load much on a 22 footer and I have a very minimalist approach to material things) but, it was hard to give up on the idea of her and my future together; all my dreams. 

When I finally jumped overboard though my thoughts were more immediate.  I had been taught by my father that the price you pay for leaving your vessel is to put her under if she is not already so and I had tears in my eyes because I do not have any thruhulls to blow (for safety ironically) and all my drills were inaccessibly packed (not ever thinking that I would have to sink my boat in foul weather someday) and as a result I left her floating and I was very concerned about the safety of other mariners thinking that I had just let many people down.  In a desperate attempt to alert others to the fact that she was unmanned my last official act before getting in the water was to invert the American flag in hopes that someone savvy enough to notice may be able to either approach her and throw her a tow line or stay well clear of her to avoid collision until she would ultimately come ashore somewhere on the Baja coast. 

Fortunately, it never came to that but, when I went to pick her up after the Mexican Navy had towed her to Topolobompo, the first thing I noticed was that someone had taken the time and had shown my little Andunge so much respect that they had righted and flown her American flag.  I cried for a long time...

Sailing and boats go beyond the material and into the soul like nothing else I have experienced.  It is a hard and unnatural thing indeed to watch even a little boat go off to face the sea and it's ill fate alone. 

CgoingGal-

Just curious, why did you have to abandon Andunge?  I am very glad that you were able to recover her...and that no major damage had been done to her.

During foul weather while crossing the Sea of Cortez I made a general call for contact to anyone in San Carlos, Sanora (which I was 16 miles off the entrance to) to respond in order to relay to someone expecting me that I was headed offshore to wait out strong winds after which I would make my way back to San Carlos.  The individual asked, given what was predicted, if I would like to maintain radio contact for as long as possible which I agreed to (my mistake).  For about a day and a half we were able to communicate.  At some point during the second day I fell beyond antennae range (which we knew was going to happen).  After that, apparently there was an uproar in San Carlos as to the state of my personal safety, they panicked, and called in a May Day despite the content of my personal transmissions which were honest but, positive in nature.   The Mexican Navy arrived on the scene after a two day search.  The helicopter found me first to which I communicated to that I was not in need of assistance.  They flew off and I was relieved.  Several hours later, on channel 16, I heard the Navy hailing and talking to another sailboat so I came about in order to get closer to make contact with, which I eventually was able to do, and asked the sailboat to relay to the search vessel that I was not in need of assistance, which they did and to which there response was, "I told them but, I think they are headed your way anyway."  I was heartbroken.  They arrived sometime later while I was on deck adjusting my radar reflector.  After some arguing, some ignoring, some bargaining, some pleading, I finally accepted that I had no choice, they were not going away.  15 minutes later I was in the water.

The Navy, I should mention, did a tremendous job start to finish, and did not charge me a penny.  When I asked what I owed the exact response by the Captain of the gunship that towed Andunge south was, "It was our pleasure."  If you ever need anything I would highly recommend the Mexican Navy.  They had me fill out service questionnaires as to how they did and they gave me a 'Welcome brochure' to the Arm Prieto (the gunship).  Good people!!

That is one heck of a story! What kind of boat were you in? Good to hear that they towed the boat - I don't think that is typical of most navies...

Cheers!

CgoingGal-

That sounds like it must have been very frustrating to have to abandon your Andunge for no real good reason.  You're attitude towards the Navy is very forgiving, considering that it could have lost you your boat.  Nice to know that the Mexican Navy is both courteous and professional, if a bit overprotective.

Thanks for the story.

Cgoinggal, I read your entry regarding leaving your boat with a tear in the eye.  You said it beautifully

QuoteSailing and boats go beyond the material and into the soul like nothing else I have experienced.  It is a hard and unnatural thing indeed to watch even a little boat go off to face the sea and it's ill fate alone.

I can only imagine how you must have felt, but so happy that it all turned out well. 

I have some friends currently sailing in Mexico and they were traveling in tandom with another vessel headed for Guatamala.  The other vessel hit a reef 60 NM off shore and he lost his boat.  The govt told him to leave the country and his boat behind or pay a huge fine.  I do not have details and received this info 3rd person, so I cannot speak to specifics.  I can't imagine losing my floating soul mate.  Thanks for sharing the story. 

I crossed the Atlantic on a 40 footer in three legs -- one each with 5, 4, and 3 crew (including me). 3 was the right number.

I'm not big. 5'10" and 170 pounds. My girlfriend is 5'7" and 135. I wouldn't hesitate to make a passage with just the two of us up to a week. It would be nice to have  a 3rd aboard for longer than that.

My boat has a conventional main with lazy jacks and a RF headsail. I can fly my asym off the bowsprit or pole (I don't use the pole singlehanded).

I think the original post is making sailing distances out to be much harder than it is.

Don't do dumb things. Sail fast. That's it.

dave

We have been suffering from 7'itis recently.  We can't seem to carry everything we want on our Cape Dory 25D! But, as I am sitting here  on the hook at  Egmont Key listening to the thunderstorm that will soon be on top of us, I remember some of the great things about sailing small.  If we drag anchor, I can reset it in minutes. If I need to motor into the wind, it will be wet, but very do-able. If we get drug to shallow water, when the storm passes we can push or kedge her off. Bigger doesn't mean safer or easier! My boat was built to be an offshore cruiser.  She has always done what we have asked of her like the lady that she is.  While alot of folks think they are buying safety by getting a bigger boat,  fear is expensive.  Bigger, Better, More...these can soon become your Master. I think we'll try and ditch the stuff & keep it small! Sail Small, Sail Far!!

See you out there!

   Ya gotta remember that the stuff you put aboard is in direct relation to size. Bigger boat = more stuff. Each year we look around at the end of a season and take off what was not used.Try that....it will surprize ya. The benefits of 'small' far outway the extra space.Friends on Manjack cay in the Abacos told Judy and I that we are the only couple that keeps showing up on smaller and smaller boats. We make that a conscious choice...less stress,more sailing,easier to do EVERYTHING.  You have a very fine vessel...sounds like ya just got to 'house clean'    ;)

Bigger boats also have bigger stuff to break and replace...and that takes bigger boat bucks... ;)

Carsail - although to me your point didn't need making (I've already felt the same way for quite a while, as you could guess... ;D), it was underscored by some work I did on a 51' Skye (like a Swan) over the past few weeks.

One of the projects I had to do was to strip the old sails and bend on the new ones - a new main, and a new 150 roller-snarling genny.

The sails came with their invoice, there was nothing fancy about them, just cruising-grade sails - but the cost to the owner - almost $10,000 for the set! :o Stripping the old sails off and bending the new set on took me almost 2 days, mostly working alone. I had to get help carrying the sails out to the boat, they were so large and heavy. That the roller snarling system had problems (as is common), multiple hoists and drops of the genny to get things set properly took a lot of time. Striking the old genny in *maybe* 5 kts of wind on the beam took plenty of effort - had it been a storm at sea, I would probably have just let the darn thing blow out. ;)

That's just the tip of a 7 week iceberg of dealing with that big ole boat. It was a nice boat, looked good, done well inside, plenty of room and all that - but to have to deal with that thing on a regular basis, living aboard and cruising? NO THANKS!!! lol

Gimme my little boat, with it's walk-in-closet-sized cabin, and sails that cost a couple tenths of those on the big boat. And as a personal request - hanks on the foresail, please! :D

Quote from: carsail1260 on July 16, 2007, 03:27:44 PM
We have been suffering from 7'itis recently.  We can't seem to carry everything we want on our Cape Dory 25D! But, as I am sitting here  on the hook at  Egmont Key listening to the thunderstorm that will soon be on top of us, I remember some of the great things about sailing small.  If we drag anchor, I can reset it in minutes. If I need to motor into the wind, it will be wet, but very do-able. If we get drug to shallow water, when the storm passes we can push or kedge her off. Bigger doesn't mean safer or easier! My boat was built to be an offshore cruiser.  She has always done what we have asked of her like the lady that she is.  While alot of folks think they are buying safety by getting a bigger boat,  fear is expensive.  Bigger, Better, More...these can soon become your Master. I think we'll try and ditch the stuff & keep it small! Sail Small, Sail Far!!

See you out there!

We too have a 25D and are actively trying to come up with viable storage methods. Things like gear hammocks(which we have) or turning the entire port settee into storage(we haven't). We currently use the entire quarter berth for storage.

What what you come up with? 

We've been thinking and talking about the same topic all summer, on our new-to-us Aphrodite 101. Yesterday we humped all the stuff off the boat in preparation for winter storage. We were able to get everything off in 4 cartloads, and it all fit into my Mazda 626. That felt good to me. We did eventually wind up with 2 of a lot of stuff (or more), honey, maple syrup, peanut butter, etc. 'Cause we would forget whether it was onboard or not and bring another for the next trip. But I think we got ourselves into a pretty good system, with some permanent residents (the pots, sliverware, cups, flashlights, VHF, dry staples, etc) and most everything else coming back and forth (clothes, sleeping bags, charts, perishables). I was pretty pleased with how everything worked out.

We returned Monday night from our final cruise of the season. A short trip from Boston to Martha's Vineyard and back. Cold at night, two beautiful days in the second half. The first two days were wet and cold. This trip puts us over 1000 miles this season, so we're pretty happy that we got a lot of time on the water. If you want to follow our summer adventures, Norm and I have been keeping a blog at www.averisera.com (http://www.averisera.com). I think we call the summer of '07 a success!

-elizabeth

Hello all:
To add a bit to cubemonkey's notes... Charles Dewell wrote a good sailing book (Kawabunga) about a Pacific voyage in a boat not too different from a CD25D.  Some how he solved the storage problem.  Maybe worth a read.

One thing I envy about the CD25D is the shallow draft.  You have so many more anchorages available that those of us with six feet to probe the bottom with.

On our cruises, we find that we bring too much.  We don't wear all the clothes.  We don't eat all the food.  A recent trip had us doing laundry and shopping often.  It was pleasant to have a shore chore.  I think that is the nature of coastal cruising.  We depart on the sailing adventure all wound up in "land mode" and then unwind into "boat mode."

I am familair with the CD25D model.  They weigh about a thousand pounds less than our Averisera and have the same beam.  We have two quarter berths that are solely storage.  On a semi-amusing note: we find the sturdy plastic kitty litter buckets with lids to be superb moevable lockers, galley stools, and cockpit tables.  Our head is also forward and the v-berth (suitable for children... perhaps...) is given over to our clothing bags and sails.  No Rf for us so we pack away two spinnakers, a 3/4 oz and 1.5 oz, and two jibs, a 77% and 102% in with the clothes.

We wonder, is Averisera big enough?  We find bigger boats have more "air" space below but not much more storage.  Anyone else observing the same thing?

yep... we are squeezed tight but we are out there and the folks in hotels look enviously at us.  Is looking un-envyingly at them a luxury of sailing small boats?

Regards, Norman

We went on a crewed charter in St Vincent for 25th wedding anniversary. 64' schooner that was beautiful in every respect. www.metanicharters.com

However, after one week I realized that a boat that size was not for us. My wife was standing by to administer CPR each time we raised sails and I can not imagine having to contend with an 8' draft. Conversations with the captain/owner revealed just how expensive it is to maintain a boat of that size ( $4700 just to replace chain rode).

Yes there was a lot of space, and it was all full.

Ken

Since Monday of last week, Laura and I have sailed three times on BIG boats. Twice aboard an Irwin 46 Ketch and once aboard a true double circumnavigator- a custom 54 foot sloop. Both boats would be great- out on the open ocean. Both boats would be terrible to try to cruise in on a coastal basis. The ketch has dock lines of 1 inch nylon and the jib sheets are also 1 inch. The 54 footer has primary sheet winches that are #65 three speeds. Laura comfortably sat on top of one as a stool. The halyard winches are 3 sizes larger than our sheet winches. You know how much those suckers COST????

(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1193261969.jpg)

And yeah- the deck chairs stayed in use- and the winds were 18 to 20.

I'd hate to try to handle either vessel in a blow

Way too much boat for a couple of people who really prefer to sail places, like us. Besides, both boats were wheel steered, and Laura hated that. ;D
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1193262477.jpg)

darn... I hate to think how much Laura's stool cost... ;)  There are so many reasons that I prefer our smaller craft.  Expense of maintenance and gear is only one of them... how many harbors are not available to those large boats, with their deep drafts??  I often go places larger boats wouldn't dare venture because I can.  Having a board up draft of 15" makes a lot more water accessible to me. 

Charlie..great pics ;). It is SO easy to do a 'case in favour of small craft'. $$ to buy,$$ to maintain, $$ for slip fees,launch etc. But even with $$ totally out of the discussion..I wouldn't want anything bigger than about 28ft. It is the simple fact of "less stress". Anchoring is easy,docking is easy,sail changes and reefing is much easier,poking around an anchorage looking for a good spot is easier(less draft).Hauling anchor and raising sail for an afternoon out is easier.It goes on and on. A 42fter would be a very tuff sell with me.Now a fully restored Triton.................. ;)

Hi Frank- Yep- we have the jib here from the Irwin 46, for Laura to do some repair on the protective strip on the edge. She cannot carry the sail. It's a pretty healthy load for me in fact.

Which is something else people tend to forget.

In fact, she couldn't reach the head of the main on that boat to tie the sail cover on- had to stand on the halyard winches. The woman who lives aboard says she uses a small stool  to put the cover on.

I worked on a 51' Skye earlier this year, and part of that job was to replace both the main and the roller furling genny (a 120% IIRC) with new sails the owner had shipped in via UPS. Both boxes incurred the 'over 70 pounds' extra charge, and, like the Irwin lady CJ mentions, I had to climb up the base of the mast to be able to bend on the main (getting the slides into the spar slot, reaching the head cringle, etc...).

When I removed the old, damaged genny, there was a very light breeze blowing from the aft quarter, maybe 3-5kts. Even in so little wind, it was all I could do to control the sail as I lowered it. Heavens forbid that you'd have to do that at sea, in a blow, in the confusion that exhaustion engenders.  ::)

I'd like to add another take on this.  I think to a point this idea of purchasing a 'big boat' for ocean sailing is somewhat like tilting at windmills.

I mean, don't they ALL look small on the open ocean?

;D ;D

Even the USS Saratoga. Even THAT feels tiny when it really begins to blow- and when solid water came rolling down the flight deck after we stuck the bow under ( the bow sits 90 feet above the water) it REALLY felt little.

How much do you feel the current economic reality might be impacting people's view?

Looking through the glossy magazines with the 50'+ double-wheel-steered sailing things in them, and the brokerage sites with a huge pile of 40'+ boats for sale, I suspect that the economic downturn has less effect on those that don't "have to ask" the price of their toys. For those of us scrimping and saving, things might be tight, but I'm still not likely to ever genuinely crave something over 35' loa, if for no other reason than the increased costs of ground tackle.
If the dollar plunges more... takes a deeper dive than it already has, all bets may be off.
I had a "bass boat" kind of sailor inquire of me how sails worked, now that the cost of gasoline is beginning to bite into his outings.
:)

Hey Charlie what did you do on the Sara?  I'm a plankowner from the the IKE CVN-69 V-4 grape.  I know what you are talking about, rounding the tip of Africa we were just about walking on the bulkheads mand waves were crashing over our bow.  It was a good time.  Marc

I am not sure how much of it is economics and how much of it is tragedy but I was in Mandeville La. on North Shore of Lake Pontchartrain recently.  The Marina was mostly full of abandoned boats and the marina owners are starting to strip them then crush hulls and send to land fill.  Some sail far boats included.  Real sad to see a permanent end to these boats.

Marc- I was attached to VA-44, which was a replacement air group. We trained new pilots in fleet aircraft, and carrier ops. We'd do 14 day deployments on whichever carrier was in in either Norfolk or Mayport, depending on how the Navy decided. We had been out for close to a week when the strom turned. We offload aircraft, them the ship ducked under (south) of the storm. We never hit the center, but did run into some HUGE storm waves even so.

I was NOT happy about the whole thing- grin

Quote from: Captain Smollett on December 27, 2005, 04:01:42 PM
Doesn't Bigger boat = bigger maintenance cost?
                            = more maintenance time?
                            = harder to handle short/single handed?
                            = more expensive to haul overland, if the need arises?
                            = higher slip fees?

It seems 25-30 ft is the sweet spot for a single/couple cruiser. Unless you cruise with sufficient crew aboard that the extra room is really necessary, of course.

Might we add to that list;

= more likely to be forgotten / foreclosed on in the event of economic downturn?

Quote from: s/v Faith on April 29, 2011, 05:43:55 PM
How much do you feel the current economic reality might be impacting people's view?

I cannot say that I've seen it ... yet.

Still, most power boaters run "no wake" to the sign, then throttles to the stops and full bore from there.  Either no one ever told them, or they simply do not care, that their boat has a 'max efficient cruising speed' and it is NOT full throttle.

Still, I see far more sail boats motoring than sailing...even in EXCELLENT sailing conditions.

I cannot say if there are fewer boats on the water than this time last year...perhaps.  I can better answer that one later in the year.

Sad, though...getting on the water does not HAVE to cost so much.  Sail more, back out of the throttle a bit, etc.  There are ways and it does not have to mean giving up what one loves.

It's been a long afternoon and evening...but a good one...

I posted awhile back about missing the Typhoon 19 that I'd owned and sailed for some 12 years, and had sold. John, I especially appreciated your reply.

I kept the trailer for it an intended to use it with the Hurley 18, but its keel draft at 3'-3" was too deep for the ramps at the large lake where I had been sailing. A few days ago I came upon an opportunity to get a Bristol Corinthian 20 very inexpensively.

It was very satisfying to lower that sailboat into the trailer and tow it home this evening. Glad to be a small traditional boat--an Alberg--again. Looking forward to many hours of fun and daysails. For pure simple enjoyment, the Typhoon has been hard to match. Last season wasn't so good and I found myself regretting having  missed out on a season with my father, who will be 84 in July, even more than expected. As I've deepened my appreciation for how precious time together is, and how there is nothing better than spending it on such a boat.   

It was also interesting to hear the historic news tonight. It has been a memorable day.

Congrats Jim, 
I know for me my Ariel gives me something to work and dream on while my Typhoon gives me something to sail on wherever I want.

More pics would be great!

(http://sailfar.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10375/normal_Chiquita_4.JPG)

Tim

Thanks, Tim.

Same here, I have a larger boat for the ocean for the future, but the costs there (with mooring fees, inspections, etc.) are considerably higher, so have been content to sail in the big lake for now.

I enjoyed my Typhoon for 12 years, but have never sailed a Corinthian. It's only a foot longer, but 700 pounds heavier. Also, where the Typhoon design had a slightly shallow cockpit to make the drains work (keep the sole above the waterline), the Corinthian design does not try to do that and is deeper, and with wooden seats, sole, etc. Seems like it may feel a little more secure and comfortable to sit a bit lower in the hull. Guess I'll have to get/make a boom tent/cockpit cover to keep the rainwater out.

The boat did not come with sails, but I think that I have some a jib and Genoa that will work, but will have to find a used mainsail for now. I'm looking forward to putting her in, catching up on my sailing, and seeing how much like the typhoon she sails. Not sure about the ramps on the lake. May not be hard to launch when the water level is high (and pulling up the unloaded trailer), but hauling out in the fall may be an issue. The trailer has a built-in 8-foot extension, and I've made another 10-foot one out of 2x2 structural tube. Should be enough for 2'-9" draft if there is enough water depth...

Here's another photo of my block-and-beam method for suspending a keelboat to load it onto a trailer...

Cool! I looked around for a Corinthian before getting the Ty but they are rare especially on the west coast.

Tim, I would have been happy to find another Typhoon. There were definite advantages to its self-bailing/draining cockpit. The Typhoon's 2" less draft and 700 less displacement made it a bit easier to trailer (and for possible future trailer-sailing). I liked that big bronze bow fitting with the built-in chocks with locking keepers. I did look at one [project Ty] locally that needed much more work than this Corinthian (and, to me, was overpriced at $2000.)

The Corinthian does also have some advantages. The simple two-berth layout and longer cabin trunk may be a bit more comfortable for one or two, whereas the Typhoon has the small quarter berths (for children I assume) and the V-berth is farther forward.

I think that for many the Corinthian is one of those in-between boats, and that may limit their resale value. Too heavy and deep draft to be easily trailered, and too small a cabin to be practical for cruising. Quite heavy for a daysailer/overnighter. Once you are at 2700 pounds range, the Sea Sprite 23 (3300 lb), Alberg 22, or Cape Dory 22 or 25/Greenwich 24 (4000 lb) are also attractive options with more cruising capability.

I already had a suitable trailer and a heavy duty pickup, so these were not disadvantages (requiring new investments) of the Corinthian for me, and I'm happy to have her. Opportunity and affordability certainly came together for me with this particular boat.

I have seen a few of the Alberg Pearson Ensign 22s in your area for reasonable prices. They have a similar cockpit design with the wooden seats and sole--although larger.

Here's one more photo of the boat after lowering onto the trailer.

Quote from: s/v Faith on April 29, 2011, 05:43:55 PM
How much do you feel the current economic reality might be impacting people's view?

Craig, I did hear a story on public radio awhile back about how pleasure power boating was way off at one water-recreation community and that the lack of boating tourists had hurt local businesses that catered to them. I didn't catch all of the story but believe that one aspect of it was the high cost of fuel combined with the ongoing recession.

For me, personally, it is affecting those plans to do some trailer sailing in the foreseeable future, both in my region and also the possibility of heading South (perhaps to Florida) in the winter. I'm shifting focus for now to sailing on the big local lake, where with some schedule flexibility one can get by without a motor at all, and there are no tidal currents to contend with if becalmed...  ;) 

I have been thinking about this topic a lot lately (5-6 hours per day sanding gives one time to ponder), and wanted to bring it up again.

We, or perhaps just I, talk a lot about boat size and complexity and what that means to getting out on the water.  These ideas resonate with most of the sailfar membership, and many have stated the point(s) better than I.

Still, though, one question has bugged me.  Why do, or should, I care what boat another chooses?  Why give the energy to that is given?  Get my boat set up the way I want and be done with it.

That's a good approach on the whole.  It does, however, have one "flaw," and it reflects back to something I posted earlier.

Seen on a fishing forum (and if I may paraphrase):  "When you are taught something or learn something, that information does not belong to you.  It belongs to the next person that needs it."

This is the point that sticks with me, coupled with a simple observation that in truth has taken me years to figure out how to verbalize.  This observation?

Most people that I encounter fail to realize that boats are very, VERY, specialized to particular uses.

I've noticed too many people that are looking for "a boat," or own "a boat" or have gone sailing on "a boat."   

I find the contrast with how a car purchase is approached to be very interesting.  Cars have specific uses as well: a sedan is not an SUV or a truck.  A sports car fits a different need than a van.  When people buy a car, they seek out something that (a) fits their need and (b) suits their personal style and taste.  (A) usually comes first on the priority list - or so it seems.

Why then, is this same contemplation not applied to boats and boat purchases?  I have seen folks with boats so completely unsuitable for what they said they wanted to do with their boat, like there was absolutely zero thought given to it.  It's just "a boat."

This then gets back to the sailfar/KISS evangelism that I find myself a part.  The notion that "not all boats are equal at all tasks" is information that does not belong to me...it belongs to the next boater I encounter who has not considered this.

One of the most satisfying conversations I have with a boater is to hear that their boat meets their needs. If the boat is different from mine does not offend me; it only defines that their needs are different.  But how often have I had this conversation?

I can easily count the number of times in the last 12 years that I have heard this from the basis of deliberation and experience.  Yet every day, I hear, "we have 'a boat.'"  Usually, in the latter case, the boat is not being used or is on the market, as in

"I have 'A Boat' for sale."

{mindless philosophical rambling mode off}

I liveaboard so I get to see who uses what, at least on my dock. Next to me is a 40' that has a lot of what I consider bells and whistles like refrigeration, central heat, etc.
He's been out no more often than I have and I'm doing a complete refit while living aboard and working full time.
Two boats further down is another 40' with lots of bells and whistles. I think he went out 3 times last year.
Across from me are two Catalina 30's. One went out two or three times last year. The other one, a liveaboard, hasn't moved in a couple of years.
Next to them is a Ranger 33, with no gadgets other than a compass and GPS, and it goes out all the time.
Farther down the dock is a 28' whose owner seems to be very... "organized". But he seems to spend his time making this or that "just so" and I've only seen him out a couple of times last year.
It's an odd mix, but if I had to make any sort of judgment, I'd have to say that owners who own "a boat" to SAIL do use them for that. The rest are, as you implied, just "owners".
As to the sight of sailboats motoring during perfect sailing days, I think that's tied to the fast paced, instant gratification, tight schedule, let's do everything NOW, mindset that's so prevalent.