My wife and I are noobs in the noobiest way. We have been on boats but know nothing about running our own boat. We have a limited budget for first boat purchase & year one expenses.
So our plan is to buy our boat and get certified on our particualr vessel to reduce costs since we are certain that it would be no problem (I'm sure some differ, I've been told as much) to learn as we go & best to learn on what we are going to actually be investing our future in though I will be taking a basic 101 on Lake Michigan in a few weeks.
What we have to spend for boat and running costs for 1 year $20-$26K
I'd rather do it for less but that's what we have.
Taking into account that I have already learned enough to know what type and aproximate size which is how I came across this site. Researching SB/LA cruising.
What I think I know-:
1. Shoal keel/Shallow draft as we will be mostly taking this first boat only on the Pacific coast/Bahamas/Caribbean/Mexico and potentialy the ICW if we were to move from West to East coast (but East Coast is not likely as that is not where our dream lies)
2. Boat must have a head (wife's single requirement) I'd be willing to do bucket style for extra storage but she isn't.
3. I can easily expect 10% of boats value for yearly maintanence (that's right?)
4. looking at 25'-30' to accomodate these needs but not looking at larger and likely to do it on a 25'-27' for budget purposes.
5. Boat has to be seaworthy and ready to sail at purchase and still allow us running costs and provicioning/outfitting for purpose all on the above budget.
This is my first plan in very basic form so please tell me it's possible on the above budget (of course it's subject to our ability to cut costs where possible and that my wife is employable almost anywhere in the world.)
My first Plan:
Write a plan/Start a log/Come up with 1 years running costs
Lessons/Coast Guard Certification-Live Aboard first so I can get cert on my own boat and rigging?
Survey the boat/Hopefully meet someone to help us understand outfitting for our needs
By The Boat/Register The Boat
Liability & Other Insurance (ie: Health/Life 1 year paid upfront)
Mooring-1 year paid upfront at some marina somewhere (or substitute this with anchoring where possible to keep cost down?)
Emergency Equipment-minimum CG requirements
Communication Equipment-minimum CG requirements/Radio operators license;Laptop and required inverter;Software
Navigation Equipment-
Repairs Equipment-
Galley-Fridge/freezer(LARGE icebox)
Dive Equipment-(less important but something I want to learn as part of maintanence ie:hull cleaning/prop repair without drydock)
Overall provisioning-(How long can we stay self sufficient with size and fully provisioned)
Places for Adina to work or what she can do- Massage/Spa Manager
Places for Greg to work- Maintanence/Repair and overall running of onboard duties
What I need to learn:
How to (sail/navigate/maintanence/repair)
Diesel Mechanics or engine repair
Electrical systems and repair
Knot Making
Laws for the areas we will cruise (Taxes ie:local and U.S. income Tax while working outside of U.S.)
How tall you are will determin what boat you want. Shorter people can get different boats.
You said 3 on a 26 footer with a head, right? Tight. Look at the MacGregor 26 and Hunter 27 or Compac.
How heavy of weather do you want the boat to be. Per what you say any coastal cruiser could do.
Cost of the boat will be determined on what gear you will need and what needs to be replaced. Get real on this. STUDY!! Take your classes, buy and old 21 footer and put a portapotty and camping gear and go.
Living on a boat is a very different lifestyle. There is little work on shore these days. Do not count on much, if any.
Get experience, stay focused and be real with yourself. Way to much hype out there.
You are not crazy if you go about this in a realistic way. If you just bought a boat and went out, I would question your judgement.
Boat is for 2 adults (5'11" & 5'4") and as long as we have the headroom cramped quarters are not an issue appart from storage. Which again like you said depends on gear so I'm on top of that but reading more about provisioning for our purpose which is a bit confusing to me at this stage but I'm figuring out more by seeing what others living the same way and how they provision
1. Yep, it's got to have a head (manual is ok but we understand that a MSD electric is always a requirement for LA if we are to slip at a Marina as Live Aboards)
2. Weather, yeah we are going to make this a coastal cruiser that we would like to shore up as a capable blue water cruiser as we mature our abilities but that's most certainly not for a long while. We simply don't have the money to buy a boat that we will outgrow then buy another. If that means LA and sail on weekends shoreing up our abilities before leaving on anything major that's how it will have to be. Again we'd like very much to get trained on our boat if possible to avoid extending overhead.
3. Wife already has some job placement from her school organizing some stuff for her and if that income falls short (which I doubt and hope it won't) I can daytrade when necesary so we are on top of that as well. Mostly I'll be learning my boat and maintanence while she brings income in but we are reasonably capable of producing income.
4. We most certainly won't just buy and sail
A few we are looking at right now are a Hunter Cherubini 27' and a few Cape Dory 25's-28's and a few Tartan 27's we intend to try and buy with as much needed gear included of course.
In your opinion though, I'm headed in the right direction though? Thanx in advance (how do I give KaRRRma?)
QuoteAm I crazy?
Yup. :P
But you are in good company. ;D
Much good info here, you are wise to consider some longer range goals in your plan. I personally would not recommend an 'intermediate' boat since the boat you are looking for can take you where you want to go.
If you have read anything the 's/v Faith' thread (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=72.0)you will see that my wife and I (as well as several others on this site) have found the Pearson Ariel to be just about perfect for what you are looking to do.
Just a couple of points;
Quote(how do I give KaRRRma?)
You can take a look at this thread;
Grogs & Lashes; all you ever wanted to know but were too afraid to ask. (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=1111.0)
But I think you have to have 10 posts before you can use that function.
QuoteBoat is for 2 adults (5'11" & 5'4") and as long as we have the headroom cramped quarters are not an issue appart from storage. Which again like you said depends on gear so I'm on top of that but reading more about provisioning for our purpose which is a bit confusing to me at this stage but I'm figuring out more by seeing what others living the same way and how they provision
Don't underestimate the need to be able to stand up (or nearly so). It is part of a principal that came to be know as
'the elimination of misery' principal.TM You don't need every available comfort, but you want to eliminate misery to the greatest extent possible.
Quote
1. Yep, it's got to have a head (manual is ok but we understand that a MSD electric is always a requirement for LA if we are to slip at a Marina as Live Aboards)
An electric head is not a requirement anywhere I know of. Pretty important piece of gear.
Quote2. Weather, yeah we are going to make this a coastal cruiser that we would like to shore up as a capable blue water cruiser as we mature our abilities but that's most certainly not for a long while. We simply don't have the money to buy a boat that we will outgrow then buy another. If that means LA and sail on weekends shoreing up our abilities before leaving on anything major that's how it will have to be. Again we'd like very much to get trained on our boat if possible to avoid extending overhead.
Wise. Take the money would would put into a 'starter' boat and invest it for the long haul.
Quote3. Wife already has some job placement from her school organizing some stuff for her and if that income falls short (which I doubt and hope it won't) I can daytrade when necesary so we are on top of that as well. Mostly I'll be learning my boat and maintanence while she brings income in but we are reasonably capable of producing income.
Once the boat is ready, you can live pretty inexpensively while you cruise. Especially if you invest in good ground tackle. One element of the collar-cost-estimate to consider is that it is almost always cheaper to fix something before it breaks 'out there'.
Quote4. We most certainly won't just buy and sail
A few we are looking at right now are a Hunter Cherubini 27' and a few Cape Dory 25's-28's and a few Tartan 27's we intend to try and buy with as much needed gear included of course.
I would add the Ariel to the list ;) consider the vulnerability of the rudder when looking at hull forms like the Hunter (not to open a kettle of worms) as well as the trade off for larger volume in interior space for a given length. More interior volume is not going to handle weather like a slightly more narrow hull (painting with a very broad brush here).
QuoteIn your opinion though, I'm headed in the right direction though?
Yup. Glad you found us here. Welcome aboard! (I am giving you a grog for the same reason Frank did). :)
Ok... Here we go...
Cape Dory 25's (out of the question with only a 5' headroom and cost for shoering up a lot of safety concerns)
Cape Dory 25D (still a possibility but just meets headroom requirement@5'11")
Cape Dory 26 (same headroom as a 25D so still possible)
Cape Dory 27 (Currently trying to find Headroom on a 1977 & 78)
Cape Dory 28 (Currently trying to find Headroom on a 1976) (*con replacing plastic ports if need be/no bridgeneck/need to modify companionway for safety if it hasnt been done)
Cape Dory 30 (Ccurrently looking into this one seriously and looking for headroom info but provisioning ontop of purchase would bust me)
on to Tartans (there out as a noob/centerboard design safety in a knockdown)
So that's what I learned tonight ;D
Thank's s/v Faith Ill give them a read tonight.
As far as longer range plans...FOR SURE that was just what I wrote up while deciding if it was doable in the time we have and on our budget
Thanks for the heads up on the Hunter as this is something I was thinking about while looking at them. Interior volume is of very little importance to me vs handeling.
Couple more;
(Borrowed from your earlier post)
QuoteThen we sat down recently and realized how incredibly happy we were when we were living out of canvas WWI backpacks eating grape nuts and Spaghetti O's while enjoying just being together with no interruption. That was 16 years ago and we are like many others disillusioned in the current crisis in the world and we came to a simple conclusion. We both much rather enjoy life again then work so hard just to be slaves to things we really never needed in the first place.
Don't ever let anyone or any magazine pry that vision from you. Much of the culture, even the sailing culture is about the amassing of materiel (waterline length, extra gear, etc.) I gotta stop now, or else I may get on a rant again... ::) like this. (http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=802.0)
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 12, 2009, 03:13:13 PM
My wife and I are noobs in the noobiest way. We have been on boats but know nothing about running our own boat. We have a limited budget for first boat purchase & year one expenses.
So our plan is to buy our boat and get certified on our particualr vessel to reduce costs since we are certain that it would be no problem (I'm sure some differ, I've been told as much) to learn as we go & best to learn on what we are going to actually be investing our future in though I will be taking a basic 101 on Lake Michigan in a few weeks.
Not sure what certification you are seeking (unless the reference to '101' is the ASA course). Courses are an excellent was to begin, is Lake Michigan your current home water? Your intro post said you had moved to Seattle, but I am not clear if that is where you are currently located.
QuoteWhat we have to spend for boat and running costs for 1 year $20-$26K
I'd rather do it for less but that's what we have.
Taking into account that I have already learned enough to know what type and aproximate size which is how I came across this site. Researching SB/LA cruising.
With caution you should be able to do that. One advantage of the current economic situation is that there are good deals available.. you just have to hold out for them.
QuoteWhat I think I know-:
1. Shoal keel/Shallow draft as we will be mostly taking this first boat only on the Pacific coast/Bahamas/Caribbean/Mexico and potentialy the ICW if we were to move from West to East coast (but East Coast is not likely as that is not where our dream lies)
Wise.
Quote2. Boat must have a head (wife's single requirement) I'd be willing to do bucket style for extra storage but she isn't.
You will avoid hastles with local authorities with some kind of approved MSD. I am looking at the Natures way composting head myself. I love the idea of getting rid of the black water storage tank (and it's space) and exchanging it for something I will use.
Quote
3. I can easily expect 10% of boats value for yearly maintanence (that's right?)
If the boat is in good shape when you depart. It is a fine balance between what to fix before you leave and what to live with. Lots of opionions available when you are considering specifics.
Quote4. looking at 25'-30' to accomodate these needs but not looking at larger and likely to do it on a 25'-27' for budget purposes.
Sounds like a good range. ;)
QuoteThis is my first plan in very basic form so please tell me it's possible on the above budget (of course it's subject to our ability to cut costs where possible and that my wife is employable almost anywhere in the world.)
My first Plan:
Write a plan/Start a log/Come up with 1 years running costs
Good to have a portable skill. Does the massage therapy license carry reciprocity in your intended (US) ports?
QuoteLessons/Coast Guard Certification-Live Aboard first so I can get cert on my own boat and rigging?
The ASA / US Sailing courses are good (with the right instructor). Don't go too far with them (on your budget). Consider the free / cheap courses available through your local USCG Aux / Power squadron.
QuoteSurvey the boat/Hopefully meet someone to help us understand outfitting for our needs
The survey can be a great investment, or a complete waste of money (especially on a non-financed vessel). You will know your comfort level, but make sure if you use a surveyor you fond a good one.
Quote....Mooring-1 year paid upfront at some marina somewhere (or substitute this with anchoring where possible to keep cost down?)
If you can, avoid marinas. They will really suck the budget down. Anchoring makes it tougher to work on the boat, as well as the risk of theft / damage. It is not an easy decision, but I would work this one.... research the local options. You will probably find that there is quite a range in the price.
QuoteEmergency Equipment-minimum CG requirements
Given.
QuoteCommunication Equipment-minimum CG requirements/Radio operators license;Laptop and required inverter;Software
No CG requirement. Avoid buying anything beyond a simple VHF (you can get by with a handheld to start with, and it will be a good back up if you upgrade later).
QuoteNavigation Equipment-
Avoid buying expensive chartplotters. Get a handheld GPS, and learn to use a chart. This technology will not fail like your laptop WILL fail as soon as you rely on it. GPS's are a dime a dozen used... don't increase the budge for a boat that has equipment installed.. it is likely already outdated. Bottom line, save your money here. If you start with a chart (and hand held GPS) you can always get a chart plotter later. If you learn on a laptop / chartplotter you will have a TOUGH time learning to navigate without it when it fails 'out there'.
QuoteRepairs Equipment-
You will likely get this kit together as you get the boat ready. You can never have everything, and you will likely take too much and yet still not have something you need.... it is part of the adventure! ;) Avoid complex systems and you will cut down the spares and repairs.
Quote
Galley-Fridge/freezer(LARGE icebox)
Some here plan to / do without. My First Mate requested it... I was glad. Keep the size as small as you can, they ALL suck amp hours.. even the good ones.
QuoteDive Equipment-(less important but something I want to learn as part of maintanence ie:hull cleaning/prop repair without drydock)
Lots of discussion here. I have it aboard Faith, but a mask and snorkle are pretty much all you really need for most maintenance tasks.
Quote
Overall provisioning-(How long can we stay self sufficient with size and fully provisioned)
Lots of good discussion on this here. Again, you will likely take too much... yet still forget things. Nice thing is that where ever you go the people eat THERE too. ;)
QuotePlaces for Adina to work or what she can do- Massage/Spa Manager
Places for Greg to work- Maintanence/Repair and overall running of onboard duties
I would look into the license reciprocity issue, but your stops for work are likely to be dictated by unforeseen circumstances (major repair bill, or just liking an area and wanting to stay longer) tough to predict.
QuoteWhat I need to learn:
How to (sail/navigate/maintanence/repair)
Diesel Mechanics or engine repair
Electrical systems and repair
Knot Making
Laws for the areas we will cruise (Taxes ie:local and U.S. income Tax while working outside of U.S.)
Never ends. Courses are good. Free courses are better. Check with your USCG Auxiliary, they offer a good boating safety course and IIRC only charge for the book. The Power squadrons are good to (especially their navigation course).
Good luck, look forward to following your progress!
(man, that was a long post). ;)
Okay, one small dash of cold water suggestion: buy a small sailing dinghy you can use as your tender. Buy it now, and play with it while you're looking for your 'real' boat.
Here's the reasoning:
- You'll begin learning to sail right away.
- Dinghies are a much bigger investment than you think, and if you buy a good one now before you buy the big boat you'll buy something better than you would after buying the big boat ('cuz you'll blow your budget on that.)
- If you have a way to get on the water you'll be able to avoid buying too quickly just 'cuz you want to get out on the water.
If you're thinking about the Cape Dory 25D (wonderful boat, fantabulous, not that I'm biased or anything...) pick out a 7' or so dinghy so it will fit on the foredeck or under the boom. Don't think about the Walker Bay 8 - after getting the dinghy and the sailing rig (and the inflatable ring) you will have spent as much as buying a nice wood dinghy from a custom builder.
I was just about to post in your s/v Faith log and noticed you posted here so I will reply here first as there are a few things I want to work out in my head.
It's unfortunate that we did indeed get drawn away from who we realy are by a lifestylye we had known we were never going to be happy with but meh! were still young and we figured it out in time.
Certification, well I'm not to sure on that to be honest I may have just pulled it out of my stern. Don't we need to be certified? No matter the class I'm scheduled to take is a basic sailing 101 on Lake Michigan next week and at the least it gets me familiar with more of what I need to know.
We are in Chicago presently. I had met my wife in Seattle. But we will relocate temporarily for delivery on the boat (ie: if it's purchased East Coast we will sail the ICW/If West Panama Canal)
We have learned how to live on a dime in almost every possible situation just wasn't sure if that dime was adequate for cruising and our budget is I guess in better terms our buy in budget (Boat/Insurance/Original Provisioning/ including any loose ends in gear needs/and basic running cost for the year)
Defiantely wont be purchasing 'til later in the year and hopefully that will help us finda a better deal in worse economic times (I know that sounds kind of terrible but....)
The MSD Head is something I'm researching but realy the more convienent it is the happier wife will be (her name's Adina since she would be angry if I just keep refering to her as my wife) ::)
I'm pretty handy (even though I don't know jack about boat repair I'm a quick learner but none the less I want her at least seaworthy soI can learn on a budget instead of sinking cash in right off the bat though I know it's still a possibility)
Her license or at least license requirements are different all over half the U.S. doesnt require a license merley formal education and right now she has her placement dept looking into out of country requirements.
Though it doesn't pay directly my portable skil is maintanence and repair.
Thanks for the heads up on courses I will more than likely take this Basic next month and do a heck of a lot of reading and try to negotiate a course on our boat from the seller.
BTW I am now looking seriously at an Ariel (Your's is beautiful) and I like the layout a lot more than than the Hunter but again it's a while before purchase and I'm sure it's going to be a back and forth for in that time and I may end up with something entirely dif. Nt hardset on anything atm.
Yeah I am a bit leary of Survey merley out of potential special intrest problems but that's a while off.
Mooring, yeah I figured as much and quite frankly with a decent dingy neither of us have a problem anchoring where possible. As you said working that is def needed for budget.
Provisioning. Given enough time I'm confident in my skills to get this right. I'm a firm believer in prepare for the worst hope for the best and that's never failed me in many dif situations.
thanks for all the help and your thread on the s/v Faith is truley inspiring
Greg
Quote from: Amgine on July 13, 2009, 02:01:00 AM
Okay, one small dash of cold water suggestion: buy a small sailing dinghy you can use as your tender. Buy it now, and play with it while you're looking for your 'real' boat.
Here's the reasoning:
- You'll begin learning to sail right away.
- Dinghies are a much bigger investment than you think, and if you buy a good one now before you buy the big boat you'll buy something better than you would after buying the big boat ('cuz you'll blow your budget on that.)
- If you have a way to get on the water you'll be able to avoid buying too quickly just 'cuz you want to get out on the water.
If you're thinking about the Cape Dory 25D (wonderful boat, fantabulous, not that I'm biased or anything...) pick out a 7' or so dinghy so it will fit on the foredeck or under the boom. Don't think about the Walker Bay 8 - after getting the dinghy and the sailing rig (and the inflatable ring) you will have spent as much as buying a nice wood dinghy from a custom builder.
I will keep that in mind and it makes sense that it would end up very second thought after blowing my funds on a Boat
Cpt2be I have a 27' Hunter (1979) it does have a large interior volume and I can stand up in it(6'0") I like the storage space and the topside decks are wide enough to move around on with little difficulty. The rudder has not been a problem so far although I had to replace the thought hull for the depth sounder as it started leaking bad. It was sealled with plumbers putty by a P.O.
I have been told that when cruising you can get by on fairly small amounts of cash but that it will take what ever you want to put into it. well this is my 2 cents worth
Hi Greg:
You've been getting lots of good advice from other members here. Just let me add a couple of other words that might be of interest:
On the Cape Dory 25D (which you'll find more easily on the East Coast): It's very similar to the Ariel (also a lovely Alberg design), with one unique characteristic that might well appeal to Adina--instead of a V-berth, there's a very spacious, separate head compartment. After cruising in a catboat with a porta potty, my wife Lynne fell in love with that feature. (Unfortunately, she never fell in love with sailing, but that's another story . . .) The large head compartment could easily be modified for additional storage without compromising the basic concept.
One very strong negative to the large, forward head compartment: The holding tank is aft of the cabin, under the engine. This means you're carrying waste through a long pipe that passes through the storage compartment under the port settee/bunk. And, the holding tank is small. (I've been considering replacing that arrangement with a composting head.)
On availability of boats: The current economy has created the strongest buyer's market (weakest seller's market) in the history of recreational boating. Until I got laid off (as of July 1), one of my jobs at a regional boating magazine was to write a column about the state of the industry. Every day, it seems, the trade press was full of stories of plant shut-downs, collapse of dealerships, etc., etc. And, of course, people who can barely meet their on-land expenses (huge homes, large credit-card balances, Hummers) are selling their boats.
On getting a survey: Once you find a boat that you want to buy, don't cut corners by avoiding a professional survey. Be sure to look at Dan "Adriftatsea" 's list of tips for buying a used sailboat, posted somewhere on this board. But, once you find the boat you want, go ahead and spend the extra $300 or so to have a pro look it over.
On seaworthiness: I can recommend two terrific boats by John Vigor: Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere and The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Gear, and Handling.
It sounds you folks are in a good position to explore living aboard: You're young, you aren't weighed down with possessions and you've got skill sets that should be portable. Best of luck.
--Joe
Quote from: jotruk on July 13, 2009, 09:23:50 AM
Cpt2be I have a 27' Hunter (1979) it does have a large interior volume and I can stand up in it(6'0") I like the storage space and the topside decks are wide enough to move around on with little difficulty. The rudder has not been a problem so far although I had to replace the thought hull for the depth sounder as it started leaking bad. It was sealled with plumbers putty by a P.O.
I have been told that when cruising you can get by on fairly small amounts of cash but that it will take what ever you want to put into it. well this is my 2 cents worth
Most certainly no boat has been eliminated.
Quote from: Oldrig on July 13, 2009, 10:26:10 AM
Hi Greg:
You've been getting lots of good advice from other members here. Just let me add a couple of other words that might be of interest:
On seaworthiness: I can recommend two terrific boats by John Vigor: Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere and The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Gear, and Handling.
--Joe
I will pick up those two books asap
Thanks to everybody and I am already very happy we have made this decision
Greg
I might also add- take a look at James Baldwin's website about his Triton Atom-
http://www.atomvoyages.com/
Twice around the world aboard her
and in particular this section of his web site concerning "good old boats". Note that our Meridian 25 is on that list ;)
http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/boatlist.htm
Quote from: CharlieJ on July 13, 2009, 11:48:39 AM
I might also add- take a look at James Baldwin's website about his Triton Atom-
http://www.atomvoyages.com/
Twice around the world aboard her
and in particular this section of his web site concerning "good old boats". Note that our Meridian 25 is on that list ;)
http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/boatlist.htm
Thanks, been using that site for a few days to help narrow what I want to take a more thourough look at
I guess I should start a log soon so I don't keep doing it here and end up with hundred page "Am I Crazy" thread 'cause it might start to look that way. :o
In the meantime I am taking a SERIOUS look at the 3 Ariel's over on yacht world's listings and I have'nt had a chance to look further and won't have the rest of the day to do it CAUSE I'm taking my first lesson in a few hours YIPEEE!
I'l let you all know how that went.
"A SERIOUS look at the Ariel's" beautiful beautiful vessel. If anyone's on here reading my ranting anymore hop over and take a look at them tell me what you think (esp. s/v Faith)
I think you are getting good advice. Hopefully mine will be of similar quality.
Look for local racers and sign on as crew. You will learn more and faster that way than any other. Some boats will even feed you! If you get on a boat and are treated as railmeat with no chance to learn simply move on to another boat. Racing with a good skipper is about the only way to gain good experience better AND faster AND cheaper.
Note that I sail a somewhat larger boat than many here (they let me hang around anyway) so bear that in mind when considering my comments.
A well-installed refrigeration system does not mean you can't use the box as an ice-box.
Women are people too (most of them anyway), but there does seem to be a pattern of behavior. As long as there is room in the head compartment you can change the toilet. I happen to be rather fond of an electric toilet, but I suggest that a unit with a full-size oval bowl will be more comfortable for Adina than a "classic" round marine bowl.
Find a way to keep the toilet paper dry. Make this a priority.
If Adina wants things to be pretty make that a priority also.
You will spend many many more nights at anchor or otherwise moored than you do underway. Comfortable sleeping at anchor is much more important than sea berths. You can always sleep on the floor on passage.
Good knot skills are important but you don't need to know a hundred. You should be able to tie a bowline in the dark when it is pouring rain. You should be comfortable and confident with clove hitches and reef (square knots). A trucker's hitch comes in handy very often, as does an anchor bend. Anything else you likely have plenty of time to look up in Brion Toss' "The Rigger's Apprentice" which you should have.
On a limited budget use your local library to read books before you spend money on them. There is a lot of duplication and distressing amount of poor material out there. For example, you should probably own either Chapman Piloting Seamanship & Boat Handling or the Annapolis Book of Seamanship but not both (I prefer Chapman). Most of the books dedicated to living aboard are not particularly useful.
I culled a lot of books when I moved aboard. Somewhere I have a list I have posted of what made the cut to be worth keeping. If you're interested I'll dig it out and post it again.
Sport-A-Seat chairs are priceless in the cockpit.
Ask "why" a lot. It will make you feel like a 3-year-old, but will help you separate the people who know what they are talking about and have good reasons from those who just rehash cultural beliefs and repeat what they have read. No one should be offended by being asked to explain their rationale for a recommendation.
sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
OK, so that was a blast! First lesson and 3 to go for my basic but HOLY JEBUS that was FUN! It was a beautiful day here for it.
I probably will continue into an intermediate in the same program here (it's not to expensive and wont break the budget)
I have had to order all the books listed as no one has them around here and our nearest library is way out of the way of regular daily activities but that's no biggie either.
And though availability and costs will definitely dictate which boat we settle into it is reasonable to assume it's going to be one of the following though I haven't had a the time today to look at more it's a good starting point I think;
Ariel (good prices/lower availability) Cape Dory (good prices/high availability) Hunter 27 (good prices/high availability)
Keep in mind I am still looking at others but I like what I see in these three (fit for purpose and so on)
keeping in mind not to pay for what I don't need in outfitting while getting the most for my purchase. Apart from the '64 Ariel that appears I'd need to modify a reasonable bit to take her where we want to go.
s/v Faith lots of good money saving advice on loadout and thx for that. We just need functionality and safety not convenience.
Auspicious, I have ordered the books you mentioned. I am an inquisitive individual and never have a problem asking why. While we were out today (myself and the three other students) and I was the only one who asked why, what and how to the extent that the other students seemed like they were a little put off but meh, they weren't opening their mouth.
Again you all are so helpful that I hope at sometime I am able to do for you as you have done for us.
Greg
Just a plug for my boat (because lets face it, we all like to peddle what we love), take a look at Albin Vegas. They come in pretty close to what your looking for, and they are a rock solid boat. Even with an original rig and pretty old sails, I still get up to hull speed, and have no worries in a blow.
Also, the prices are very competative, and they had a great production run, so they are out there.
Okay, I have to mention my all-time favourite book for new sailors who plan to cruise: The Complete Sailor: Learning the Art of Sailing by David Seidman.
This book is best because it's *visual*. The drawings have the amazing ability to really show new sailors how wind works, what anchors are doing, and so on. It improves for intermediate sailors, with excellent if somewhat dated discussions about boat types, construction, materials, aero- and hydro-dynamics and so much more. The version I have (second or third copy - I have a bad habit of losing them to other sailors who raid my library. And this one has visited the bilge, to guess from its condition.) is ISBN 0-07-057131-7, but I understand it's been reprinted (for the third or fourth time - it really is that good.)
Of all the books I've used to teach newbs and intermediate sailors, this is the one that covers everything the best.
Amgine—
I'd second your recommendation, since Dave Seidman's book is one I've been recommending and giving away for years... it is probably one of the best basic books on sailing, and covers a fairly wide breadth of material, more so than most of the other "learn to sail" books.
Hello from up the L. Michigan coast a bit. I'm in Milwaukee. How is your search coming along? I saw you were looking at Ariels in the area? Have you gone to see any? I'd be interested to hear what you thought of them.
I know of a couple not advertised boats that might fit your bill here in Milwaukee. There is a nice CD 28 that I went through not too long ago that has been on the hard for a few years and for sale for some time. Very sound boat, nice interior and it's a 78 so you get the bridge deck and brass portlight fittings. The CD 28 is cramped inside by 28 foot standards, but the cockpit is adequate and that's where you want to spend your time anyway :)
Oh, I almost forgot. A friend of mine is selling his Hunter 27 here in Milwaukee. It's a 76 model but decks, hull and motor are very sound. The sails are in good shape too. I sailed on this boat quite a bit last season and she is a good boat. We sailed across Lake Michigan and back and hit some nasty weather and she stood up quite nicely. Standard rig fin/spade setup with a tiller. Not a bad boat for what he's asking -- I think $7500 obo.
Don't spend too much time seeking certifications and sailing classes. I was sort of "scared" into spending a couple years taking lessons. If you read Don Casey's Sensible Cruising book, he'll tell you to buy a boat and just get sailing
I see you have got the bug-bad. They say there is only a thin line between a mental illness and a avocation- in this case sailing. You are in good company here, and all I would add is don't allow yourself to be sold on a new boat by your ASA class sponsors. They will see the look in your eye too, but they have a different agenda than we do. :)
I can aslo recomend one of the compute sailing games. Quite real to get some practice. Not as good as the real thing.
http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/1223271530.html
If its anything like my C-22 it would be worth looking in to.
With everything into consideration I think I found my perfect boat. Yes I plan on sailing to the Bahamas. But I'm not the 1st to make trips like this in a Chrysler 22. The size has many advantages when it comes to moving it and the amount of maintaince. The only thing I do have a problem with is head room. and if I find I need an upgrade it will be to the C-26.
I think with a budget of $25k would have me ...um YOU ;D setting there most of next year in comfort.
Iit really is a great time to buy I found lots of great deals on other boats, but its hard to beatready to sail with a little work for around $500 . (most into the trailer... :P)
Good luck
On our progress...
I have picked up a few books and have a few coming shortly so thanks for the recomends.
On to the boat...
We have kept a very open mind because of budget (and yes I have already had a broker aproach me at the marina after my SECOND lesson yesterday)
I have 2 more lessons in the basic course then I'm going to forgoe any more in favour of some navigation courses per s/v Faiths recomend to keep budget down by learning it the handheld/chart/ celestial way.
We figure, if all goes well, we will be ready to make a purchase towards the end of the calender year and take delivery sometime in Feb-April. Cutting it close for that season but it its what it is. Adina's placement program through school has already started setting up some stuff in California and Bahamas etc.. and with the experience she has we hope and pray we can get her into a nice fancy resort down in that area and it doesn't look like that will be a far stretch of the imagination.
OH YEAH WE GOT THE BUG BAD!
Thanks so much to all the advice and as we get closer I may need some help with finding one of those boats near you that you have all listed.
Greg & Adina
Greg,
Glad to hear the lessons are going well. As far as;
QuoteI have 2 more lessons in the basic course then I'm going to forgoe any more in favour of some navigation courses per s/v Faiths recomend to keep budget down by learning it the handheld/chart/ celestial way.
Just to clarify, while celestial is a very good tool for the toolbox, my intention was to recommend learning basic navigation (dead reckoning, taking a fix, and inputting GPS coordinates on a chart) first. There are many who learn with a chart plotter / laptop & nav software that risk being completely lost without fully functioning electronically aided navigation. This is a big danger IMHO, and one I regularly warn folks against. Celestial is an art.... (albeit an art that IMHO all mariners who travel offshore should have at least a BASIC understanding of) but is probably not a necessary starting point.
QuoteOH YEAH WE GOT THE BUG BAD!
Sounds like it... there are far worse bugs to have. ;)
The advice on navigation I found very useful and almost naturally intuitive.
As an IT I never relied on my computers ::)
I just threw in celestial because I would be more apt even apart from other alternatives than to do it with a laptop because of reliability.
Thanks again.
BTW-did you (s/v Faith) happen to take a look at the Ariel's on yachtworld I mentioned? I'd like to hear your opinion as they meet the budget and seem to be reasonably well maintained (less a survey of course).
If you could'nt tell we are leaning that way. Good price, has most of what we are looking for in convienence and again "appear" to be in about the condition we'd expect for the price. Barring any major problems in a survey my wife and I have almost fell in love with them (*note I guess I should hold my cards better in case the sellers reading this :P )
One thing to consider when buying a boat – from a cost standpoint it can be good to find a boat that has a lot of extras or especially one that has just finished a cruise. I have found it amazing how fast all the extras on a boat add up – think charts, good life vests and harness/tethers, any handheld electronics, engine spares, proper ground tackle, dinghy, etc. All of these things can be similar in cost on a small boat vs. a big boat, so they represent a disproportionately large percentage of the cost on small boats like ours.
For instance on my Compac 23, completely new standing rigging and lifelines was only $492 from Rigging Only and a new mainsail was $600 from National Sails. On the other hand, new inflatable vests, harnesses, tethers, and jacklines for 2 people came out to about $350, and that was with bargain shopping.
If you are comfortable with the idea of buying a boat abroad, it looks like there are usually good deals on loaded, abandoned cruisers throughout the Caribbean and Central America/Mexico or even in Florida...just search by area on Yachtworld. Ex: http://www.guatemalariodulce.com/index.html
Maybe you could buy a boat now to learn on, then get a different boat when you are ready for the cruise.
We have defiantly been looking at something that gives us extras we need and one that doesn't come with convenience we dont.
That's exactly the majority of research I'm doing right now
ie:bare to minimum requirements for a safe and enjoyable cruise while balancing out of budget and necessity
I wish we had the opportunity to buy now and buy later but that is simply not the case and we will have to learn our stuff to ensure we can do it that way but thanks to all the great advice I've found here and elsewhere we get closer each day to finding a median to that compromise.
I have looked at a few "outside U.S. boats" but as I understand it there is a great deal of headaches were we to try and bring her back here and be able to meet all the requirements like registration etc...
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 15, 2009, 03:24:16 PM
ie:bare to minimum requirements for a safe and enjoyable cruise while balancing out of budget and necessity
I have seen people go with so little and be happy and people go with so much and be unhappy.
So, What can you do without and be happy? Dishwasher? 2 car? Cell phone? internet?
After you get a boat and it does not sink, has a great anchor that will hold in conditions and bottoms the worst of times and it will move cheeply and has coast guard stuff on board, What is left is what you need and can put in. Good luck, you are going to mpve ashore some day anyway. Have fun and keep a light ship. In the states things are easy to get. I suggest you keep it as light as possible and keep the decision aside until you have many days underway.
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 15, 2009, 02:06:03 PM
.....BTW-did you (s/v Faith) happen to take a look at the Ariel's on yachtworld I mentioned? I'd like to hear your opinion as they meet the budget and seem to be reasonably well maintained (less a survey of course).
Wow, no I had not. I just looked at the listing for the Ariel in the Bay, I looked at the price and thought he was high until I looked at the boat. If it is as good as it looks, you could pretty much add a dodger to that boat and go... (and get rid of the oversize outboard)
Bet an offer of 10 would get you talking.
(http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=2071850&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=76997&url=)
Quote26' Pearson Ariel
* Year: 1964
* Current Price: US$ 12,888
* Located In Berkeley, CA
* Hull Material: Fiberglass
* Engine/Fuel Type: Single Gas/Petrol
* YW# 76997-2071850
[/url]
Love the work he did on the interior.
OBTW, worth taking a look at the Pearson Ariel Owners association web page (http://www.pearsonariel.org) for adds too. Very active and very good forum. Can help you get some background on the boats you are looking at.
Is there a particular one on Yachtworld that caught your eye?
Quote from: s/v Faith on July 15, 2009, 10:58:57 PM
Is there a particular one on Yachtworld that caught your eye?
Yep, that very one ;D but I'd have to (by the looks of it have a head installed (cost est?)
Yeah, I've been on the Pearson forum reading a bit.
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 16, 2009, 12:26:01 AM
... I'd have to (by the looks of it have a head installed (cost est?)
If you intend to install a head + holding tank, you can plan on it costing about $1000.
I purchased a Raritan PH-II head (ca $200) and used a custom designed holding tank also from Raritan (about $300). There are ways to make your own tank, but I did not want to invest the time at that time.
Incidental plumbing and parts round out the rest of the Boat Unit I mentioned. I think I came in under $1000 by a bit, but if you budget that amount, you should be able to complete the project without overruns.
Do some reading online by Peggy Hill - she seems to be the marine head 'guru.'
Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 16, 2009, 09:05:17 AM
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 16, 2009, 12:26:01 AM
... I'd have to (by the looks of it have a head installed (cost est?)
If you intend to install a head + holding tank, you can plan on it costing about $1000.
I purchased a Raritan PH-II head (ca $200) and used a custom designed holding tank also from Raritan (about $300). There are ways to make your own tank, but I did not want to invest the time at that time.
Incidental plumbing and parts round out the rest of the Boat Unit I mentioned. I think I came in under $1000 by a bit, but if you budget that amount, you should be able to complete the project without overruns.
Do some reading online by Peggy Hill - she seems to be the marine head 'guru.'
That's not bad at all. You are all making this so much more enjoyable experience than I thought this could be. Thanks
Did I get that right- you consider modifying a boat enjoyable. You are new :)
Quote from: newt on July 16, 2009, 01:18:13 PM
Did I get that right- you consider modifying a boat enjoyable. You are new :)
LOL!
New enough to have realized it could have been much worse than that ::)
Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 16, 2009, 09:05:17 AMDo some reading online by Peggy Hill - she seems to be the marine head 'guru.'
That would be Peggie Hall, the Head Mistress. She posts some on CSBB and a couple of other places but mostly hangs out on SBO. Start here (http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/member.php?u=35248). Her book is well worth the investment and addresses lots of plumbing and ventilation issues. There is some debate about her position on keeping a holding tank aerobic but from a practical standpoint there is no one better to listen to for advice.
On the subject of ventilation, if you end up heading somewhere cold and still sail year round also look for The Warm Dry Boat (http://www.armchairsailorseattle.com/warmdryboat.html) by Roger McAfee.
Quote from: Auspicious on July 16, 2009, 06:41:15 PM
That would be Peggie Hall, the Head Mistress.
Oh my word!! Peggy Hill. LOL!! (He wasn't asking for Spanish Lessons...) ;D
Thanks for the correction.
Quote from: Auspicious on July 16, 2009, 06:41:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 16, 2009, 09:05:17 AMDo some reading online by Peggy Hill - she seems to be the marine head 'guru.'
That would be Peggie Hall, the Head Mistress. She posts some on CSBB and a couple of other places but mostly hangs out on SBO. Start here (http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/member.php?u=35248). Her book is well worth the investment and addresses lots of plumbing and ventilation issues. There is some debate about her position on keeping a holding tank aerobic but from a practical standpoint there is no one better to listen to for advice.
On the subject of ventilation, if you end up heading somewhere cold and still sail year round also look for The Warm Dry Boat (http://www.armchairsailorseattle.com/warmdryboat.html) by Roger McAfee.
I just spent 3 hour's reading transcripts of King of the Hill trying to find refrence to Peggy Hill and marine heads j/k ;D
thanks for the info
Last class today ;D
Updates:
They were VERY basic all the way around but again it was innexpensive to do and I was sailing by myself yesterday and will not likely take any more classes and just do it.
Looking at signing up for nav classes but that may keep until we actually get our boat.
Trying to find a course at a community college for diesel mechanics but I am good mechanically anyway and may just learn from a book (any recommends here appreciated).
I've realized how much easier this can be and how much I personally am capable of complicating things more than they need to be (budget helped dictate this in both directions) the shame is I knew these things before hand based on my own experience but unfortunately we got temporarily caught up in complicated lifestyles.
We started our new diet. No more take out or dinner out. This past week we have prepared all our own meals and have started a calorie restricted diet. Waking up at 5am every morning to do our exercise.
Craigslisted all of our stuff we never needed and don't want anymore. Took out an add for an apartment sale and are generally starting to reduce our possessions. We hope by the time we get rid of these things we are only occupying 25% of our current living space.
Adina has to start ridding her placement program to actually set up some stuff in California and outside U.S. destinations but we don't forsee any problem getting something arranged for her.
Onto the boat. The Ariel is in the front so far even if we have to modify a head into her (but that depends on how much we are able to talk the price down on the boat herself). We have genuinely fell in love with her. There are a few Cape Dory's of different size we are now also looking at that seem to foot the bill on first glance and I'll grab the links for them later today so you all can look.
Making a cost chart tonight with a boat budget of $10K and monthly living costs of $800 which will leave us with of savings of $2k-$8k (we have to certain that boat comes with as much as wee need to retain that savings). Though again Adina is easily employable anywhere we go so money should be coming in before large amounts of savings are drawn.
As each day ends we begin to realize we are doing this and the life were in 'till then gets that much less enjoyable but we see an end in sight and it's going to be a wonderful beginning to our new life.
Greg
Here are the two Ariel's were looking at . First listed is the front runner and second still seems like in that condition a competent first boat.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1964/Pearson-Ariel-2071850/Berkeley/CA/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1967/Pearson-Ariel-1935862/Sister-Bay/WI/United-States
There are quite a few CD's that meet the requirements so I'm going to spend some time narrowing those down to contenders.
Thanks again to everyone for their wonderful help and suggestions
Greg
One point- don't pass up a good boat just because it doesn't have an inboard. Some Ariel's ( and our Meridian) came with outboards in wells- a VERY workable set up and it gives you cubic feet of storage area you wouldn't have with an inboard. So don't insist on a diesel.
When we were looking, my wife wanted a separate head compartment also. We didn't get it- wound up with a Porta Potti under the Vee berth- She has since decided that was no big thing- we just don't use it when the bed is made up. No big deal.
Our outboard set up-
Quote from: CharlieJ on July 17, 2009, 12:30:59 PM
One point- don't pass up a good boat just because it doesn't have an inboard. Some Ariel's ( and our Meridian) came with outboards in wells- a VERY workable set up and it gives you cubic feet of storage area you wouldn't have with an inboard. So don't insist on a diesel.
When we were looking, my wife wanted a separate head compartment also. We didn't get it- wound up with a Porta Potti under the Vee berth- She has since decided that was no big thing- we just don't use it when the bed is made up. No big deal.
Our outboard set up-
Oh for sure I wont. I think I would actually almost prefer an outboard to simplify maintenence. We will also certainly come to a compromise on the head for budget and our desire to go sooner than later.
Basically, I'm spending a lot of time talking myself into the Ariel that's listed first.
Glad to see someone else suffers from severe boat lust... You're posts remind me of my time spent here at work paging through the various boat sites and falling in love over and over again...
;D
This one you posted looks like a nice boat also;
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1967/Pearson-Ariel-1935862/Sister-Bay/WI/United-States (http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1967/Pearson-Ariel-1935862/Sister-Bay/WI/United-States)
But probably not as nice as the one in Berkley. The difference in asking price might be worth it... hard to say without more info. I would place some weight on the fact that the one in Berkley has had it's restoration judged and awarded.
Might be worth it to find the hull numbers for both boats, and do a search of the Ariel site. I found much of Faith's prior history there, and time spent searching there is an education unto it's self. PearsonAriel.org (http://pearsonariel.org)
Quote from: mkeChris on July 17, 2009, 02:40:17 PM
Glad to see someone else suffers from severe boat lust... You're posts remind me of my time spent here at work paging through the various boat sites and falling in love over and over again...
;D
I have it bad! :P
s/v Faith, yeah I thought the same thing about the awards builds great confidence. Not to mention the mods to the mast step & backstay. Overall looks like he was very adament about maintenence.
I'll ask them for hin #'s when I'm ready to make a bid (don't want to waste his time).
Wife and I are going to see a movie and go out to dinner and I'm going to push for making a bid soon
Please get trained up to bare boat. This will give you good coastal Nav skills and some very good advice that you will not have to learn the hard way.
Practice your basic knots so you can do them in any conditions.
I met Faith in Guan, Abacos, Bahamas. Nide boat and setup he had.
We are jumping in with both feet but are wearing lifevests (we wont bite off more than we can chew prematurely)
After Friday's night out we came to the conclusion we are about 6 months away before buying so I figure I have six months to learn what I need to to buy a safe fit for purpose vessel (s/v Faith I hope it's that Ariel we both like her very much)
My Albin Vega also came with the original A4 pulled out and I use an 8 horse 2 stroke OB. I pulled out the holding tank and plumbing and have an Airhead on order. As CJ said, don't sell anything short right now. Especially as you have time to shop. You should consider every detail possible. There are alot of great deals out there right now, so don't jump on the first one that comes along. Your in a perfect position, try and take things slow. ;D
Every painter uses a different canvas to create their works of art! Same goes with our boats. We all love to sail here but each persons platform is different! Thats the beauty in the art we create!
Good luck in your search and keep us posted! Your excitement in your posts is intoxicating!
Here is one of the Peggy Hall marine sanitation articles:
http://boatbuilding.com/article.php/MarineSanitationFactvsFolklore#marine (http://boatbuilding.com/article.php/MarineSanitationFactvsFolklore#marine)
Hey guys,
Long time since I've been poking around here - Hope alls well. Since I got back from my Bahamas cruise, I've become a yacht broker - I've seen more boats in the last year than in my entire life since! Here are my recommendations for you Cap2Be:
Hallman Horizon 27: http://www.torontoyachtsales.com/27-halman-horizon-for-sale.html
Bayfield 29: http://www.torontoyachtsales.com/29-bayfield-1981-for-sale.html
Bayfield 25, which I sailed down from Toronto in: http://sailquest.com/market/models/bayf25.htm
All these models can be found for 10-15k, so long as you are ready to put in some elbow grease and negotiate.
Good luck you maniac!
OK, so we have a few potential jobs set up for Adina in FL and the Bahamas (Awesome step) so her placement stuff is going very well at least.
I have finished my basic lessons and have definitely decided that until we buy our boat no more lessons (due to cost and we need to spend our money wisely and learn on our boat. Doesn't seem like that is a far stretch as a few sellers have offered lessons so that is also awesome)
Been looking for LiveAboard Marinas in SE or SW FL and Bahamas and this is not going well...
1. How long are we actually going to be in the marina is becoming to us more of a how much do we need to stay in a marina
2. We plan on actually cruising more than not (ok I know how that plays out but that's the idea)
3. The need to have a place to put her on the hard for maintenance or hurricane season
*note on 3. is that other than maintenance we would gunk hole inland in the Caribbean or other available hurricane hole.
4. Were we to actually base out of the Bahamas (which is the ultimate plan) we would defiantly like to find a marina that we would actually take advantage of to justify the cost.
*note on 4. meaning with what we plan on doing a slip or mooring lease in FL is more or less a waste of our money.
5. Though I've been looking for more direct information regarding anchoring I have found very little or
at the most bad news that we can't just anchor where/when we want (where can I find more information on this) as this is how we planned on saving the most money.
Still looking at boats and will probably purchase Oct-Feb and leave in Mch-June
but no decisions yet. If we miss season we will still be moving from Chicago to FL
and work it out from there.
We've been reading a lot and we are certain now (with all your help) we are going to be able to do this on our budget. We're just hung up on the marina's and whether they allow LA & anchoring laws in the areas we wish to cruise.
Any advice?
Well Florida is certainly a less than friendly place these days in terms of anchor friendlness but the Bahamas are a much better bet and I can't think of a single good reason to ever overnight in a marina in the Bahamas or Caribbean.
Bob
So It Goes
(At anchor in St Martin)
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
Quote from: LooseMoose on July 25, 2009, 03:56:30 PM
Well Florida is certainly a less than friendly place these days in terms of anchor friendlness but the Bahamas are a much better bet and I can't think of a single good reason to ever overnight in a marina in the Bahamas or Caribbean.
Bob
So It Goes
(At anchor in St Martin)
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
Thanks for the info. I've been reading through boatbits some good info and very inspiring
Greg
I have been anchoring in Fl for years and not had a problem. There is several good guides for the different coast and Keys. Work in Key West if light and hard to find. However if you want a cheep place to stay and waite out the storms on several good anchors try Marathon, Boot Key Harbor.
I suggest that you get some of the cruising guides for Fl West coast, East coast and Keys.
In the Bahamas I found anchor Holding a problem and quite a few others as well during the fronts that came through. I stayed in the Abacos, Nothern Bahamas. Working in the Bahamas is very tough to get permits.
Quote from: Lynx on July 26, 2009, 08:08:46 AM
I have been anchoring in Fl for years and not had a problem. There is several good guides for the different coast and Keys. Work in Key West if light and hard to find. However if you want a cheep place to stay and waite out the storms on several good anchors try Marathon, Boot Key Harbor.
I suggest that you get some of the cruising guides for Fl West coast, East coast and Keys.
In the Bahamas I found anchor Holding a problem and quite a few others as well during the fronts that came through. I stayed in the Abacos, Nothern Bahamas. Working in the Bahamas is very tough to get permits.
On anchoring in FL, see that's where I've read some very conflicting information. Can you recommend the cruising guides I should check out? I'll search for some but if you could point me in the right direction.
Reading LooseMoose's boatbits and reading elsewhere I have read a LOT about dragging anchor and am reading a lot on anchoring in general so it's something I am concerned about and near the top of our list of things to be on top of. It's likely we will trial by error on this one since it does save us a lot of cash and though we have no pre determined opinion on marinas it's just not what were looking for in the direction of how we want to live regardless of money.
Permits in Bahamas and Caribbean are being arranged by her school placement program which is so nice that we aren't messing with doing that and have time to do everything else. If everything does work out its unlikely we wil even be returning to FL.
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 26, 2009, 12:42:59 PM
Reading LooseMoose's boatbits and reading elsewhere I have read a LOT about dragging anchor and am reading a lot on anchoring in general so it's something I am concerned about and near the top of our list of things to be on top of.
Anchoring is a large subject and something you can really only learn by doing.
Just a few tips from someone who anchored out every night for a year on his last boat and MOST nights over a two year cruise up and down the whole east coast and Keys. And anchors the current boat most of the time. In fact, Laura is out single hand on the boat now and has 3 squalls hit her with winds of over 45 in the last 5 days, with zero anchor problems.In one anchorage she experienced 4 foot waves for about an hour- the boat just sat there- rough ride, but it didn't move. In 14 days out now, she's been tied to a dock one night, and that was because the harbor master is a friend and promised us a free night ;)
SO- the tips
Carry two or three different style of anchors. If one won't work, another will. For example we carry a Bruce on the bow, and a folding Northill, plus a Hi Tensile Danforth in lockers
Get chain- lots of it. Tehani carries 75feet on the main anchor, backed with 200 feet of nylon. Then there's another 100 feet aboard in several sections, that can be shackled together as needed. And several other nylon rodes
The books will recommend certain size anchors for the boat size you are on- use them as a GUIDE, but go up at least one and preferably two sizes when you buy. For example, on Tehani the "book" calls for a 16 pound Bruce- we use a 22 pounder.
I have a friend in Florida who will tell you that the correct anchor is one that is 5 pounds lighter than the heaviest you can haul aboard ;D He jokes, but that isn't too far from the truth. Here's one place where size really does matter.
Then practice til it becomes second nature to set them, including setting a Bahama Moor. In cruising the east coast, from Annapolis to Key West, I found many times when I used that Bahama Moor.
Oh and practice with BOTH of you taking turns setting and retrieving anchors. Work up a set of hand signals so you don't have to yell back and forth.
Anchor - lots of religon on that one. I have an 18 pound super Max. Grabs like mad in the Fl mud and will reset fast in the mud. You are starting out right with due respect for anchoring. I agree that the primary anchor for a voyaging boat should be your best storm anchor. You have to delpoy it, set it and retrive it. At least 25 feet of 3/8 BB highest Galvanized chain.
Cruising guides - check out BlueWater books in Fl. they can send you a referance book list for any cruising area. Books I recommend Gunkholer's guide to Fl West Coast. Cruising guide to the Fl Keys 500+ pages. A good GPS map. I have the Garmin 440. I have not seen a bad guide. Some are more usable to your needs than others. Marinas vers anchoring out. Nothing is 95% uptodate.
Nothing beats exerience unless you are totaly untrained.
... and fit a deck-wash pump. You'll be very glad you have it anytime you are anchored in mud.
Money invested in good anchor gear pays you back every time you stay OUT of a marina.
;D ;D
Here's the deck wash pump on Tehani. A 25 foot sailboat just doesn't have the capacity for more
;D ;D
Solar shower available from Duckworks
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/shower/index.htm
(http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/shower/shower.jpg)
And here's the other one- a canvas bucket Laura made based on descriptions in one of Lin and Larry Pardeys books.
I love it! I have so much to read and am so excited each time I get a response. I have looked into a few things in the past day and it is now likely I will take the advanced class (by the way they are US Sailing courses here in Chicago) as it covers a lot of stuff and really not all that expensive plus I get my CG Certified status and have to imagine that lowers liability premiums and more course time isn't a bad thing.
Between the basic I took ($460) and the advanced ($490) it will pay off. The basic was VERY basic but I did single hand a J22 at the end of the course so that was more than I was able to do before. The advanced course has anchoring & navigation as part of the curriculum so there we go.
I have already learned quite a bit to the credit of all you friendly folks and thank you all for that.
I'm pretty confident we will be just fine but we can not wait to actually get out there and do this and again with all your advice and enthusiasm to educate us on this I feel we've found a community that I hope to be able to come to and offer our advice to the next people in line.
Greg
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 25, 2009, 03:00:52 PM1. How long are we actually going to be in the marina is becoming to us more of a how much do we need to stay in a marina
I lived aboard in a marina, with a suit-and-tie job ashore, for a couple of years. I anchored out for quite a while when I was working more casually. Now I'm back in a marina, back in a suit-and-tie.
Electrical power and water are the two biggest issues (oh - and keeping nice clothes clean and dry) different between in and out. Look at your expenses and decide what makes sense for you.
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 25, 2009, 03:00:52 PM3. The need to have a place to put her on the hard for maintenance or hurricane season
Hmm. Not sure what you have in mind. In three years living aboard I have hauled twice - once for four days for a bottom job and once to haul and hold for zincs and a power wash.
I know some people haul for hurricanes, but that wouldn't be (and isn't) my choice. Good ground tackle and an early move to a pre-selected carefully chosen hurricane hole work for me. YMMV
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 25, 2009, 03:00:52 PMAny advice?
There is a lot of advice out in the world. Generally it is worth what you pay for it. A huge amount of it comes from people with no practical experience or academic basis who just spout out what they have heard and read. Use your head and consider whether what you hear makes sense.
A dream differed.....
Well we just got a call from Adina's placement department from her school and , well it wasn't good news at all.
Neither the Bahamas or Caribbean are going to be viable for her occupation at all. Work permit application fees are HUGE with no guarantee she will be approved and easily not going to happen in a year. As a Massage Therapist her job is considered to be "easily" filled by a national . Forget they aren't required to have education in Massage Therapy or license or insurance even though you can do irreparable harm in practicing massage poorly and with no
formal education it's like if you saw a chiropractor that didn't know what they are doing. Mind you her occupation is Therapy not "feel good" massage.
So I guess we are now dead in the water so to speak. Guess we are going to have to work for quite a few more years to make enough to do it without working. We are both quite depressed. :'(
Thanks for all your advice
Greg
I should clarify. They are required to be licensed but it is still an occupation they consider to be fillable by a national.
Let me let a small ray of sunshine in. Of course this was some years ago, but my ex, my teen aged son and I cruised for 2 years on a total of 8500 bucks. We were going through a 5th of booze every week, and both of us smoked. We went from Jax, Florida to Annapolis, Maryland, and back out to the Tortugas during that time.
I will admit the boat was new and needed little or no maintenance, but still-
This was in the early 80s, so I'm sure costs are higher.But the fact remains- it takes pretty much what you have.I figure we can cruise pretty well on about 700 or 800 bucks per month and of course, some months won't cost a dime. Hey - we live on my social security check here on land- less than 1200 per month. and still save money each month.
An example- one month from Key West out to the Dry Tortugas, via the Marqessas and return to Key West- outgo? $.50 cents- for postcards in Fort Jefferson.
Stay out of marinas, stay out of restaurants except as treats. Anchor out, walk to places. Buy clothes at Goodwilll or thrift shops. You'd be amazed at how little money it actually takes if you are aware of what you are spending and are careful.
Just don't give up because jobs aren't readily available someplace.
We have been doing this living on a boat and working as we do it gig since the late 80's and for what it's worth...
Folks willing to work and at least a bit flexible always seem to be able to find work along the way.
Small countries are always problematic in terms of getting work permits and suchlike. Not that I am suggesting that people work in less than a legal manner but work is out there if you look and in most cases it will be legal.
Over thelast couple of years we have noticed a cuple of cruising boats with a massage therapist onboard who has seemed to do very well just working within the cruising fleet. Others such as hair cutters, computer geeks and even the odd bat trade folks seem to do pretty well just getting on the local cruisers net and mentioning that their skills were available.
Places like Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are part of the USA and you can work... Al lot of curiser will take a year off and work in St Thomas and save up for a couple of years cruising. When we arrived before our first day was over my wife and I had been offered a half dozen full time jobs...
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
CharlieJ & Loose Moose-
CahrlieJ-We figured about the same $800/month and after boat purchase we would be fine for about two years barring unforeseen repairs so yours is an inspiring detail of how little it can cost. We are VERY simple people with only the need for substance in our life. Done with possessions altogether so simplifying is not a problem. We just need to have income to keep going after we spend our kitty. I still believe it's possible but given how hard the economy has hit we may end up burning through our bank and have to return to the mundane life before we planned and want to be sure employment is accessible were we end up (no real guarantee on land either so I completely understand that point of view)
LooseMoose-I have absolutely no idea why I forgot about Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. :o
Adina has given thought to catering to the cruising market but not to sure how much that would work out. Myself, I'm a laid off IT but I am a jack of all trades and labor is not beneath me. I'd take anything.
We are sitting here chatting while I type and both of your posts have definitely gone a long way to convince both of us to not give up. If it doesn't work out oh well and we're willing to give it a try. The worst that happens is we end up having to dock the boat on a long term lease work ashore and try again.
Thax Guys,
Greg & Adina Clark
P.S. I'll find my photobucket login sometime tonight and post a few pics of us.
Never mind the Spaghetti 'o stain, it doesn't seem to bother me ;D
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx255/SomeGuy40/Picture017.jpg)
Nice looking gal- who's the guy ;D
Ok- here we are.A TAD older than you mind you. Well, me any way- Laura is forever young
See if you both can take a leave of abance for a few months and to the Erie Canal or Something else. You do not need much of a boat for this and you can get food every other day easily.
Or you can do the Fl Loop - 750 miles - during the winter. Do it when your young.
You will be supprised how small of boat you really need.
Quote from: Auspicious on July 27, 2009, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: Cpt2Be on July 25, 2009, 03:00:52 PM1. How long are we actually going to be in the marina is becoming to us more of a how much do we need to stay in a marina
I lived aboard in a marina, with a suit-and-tie job ashore, for a couple of years. I anchored out for quite a while when I was working more casually. Now I'm back in a marina, back in a suit-and-tie.
Electrical power and water are the two biggest issues (oh - and keeping nice clothes clean and dry) different between in and out. Look at your expenses and decide what makes sense for you.
I'd like to weigh-in on the anchor-out vs marina question and expand on what Dave has said here. My comments below must be tempered with the question of how much a slip costs where you are going be working.
(1) In our situation, we have one working parent, and one parent with the two children. Anchoring out is not feasible. If the working parent takes the dink ashore, that would either (a) leave the other three aboard ALL the time (and getting off the boat is paramount for sanity's sake), (b) require two dinks (adding $$ and 'stuff') or (c) require the three aboard to 'shuttle' the one who is working ashore ashore (my wife works a job that requires her to be on-call, so this shuttling could be at odd hours of the night and sometimes in emergencies).
This simple issue was a MAJOR driving force in our deciding to live aboard at a marina.
(2) What Dave mentioned about clothing is very important in certain jobs. My wife does not keep her work clothes on the boat (it's a matter of room/storage as well as keeping the clothes neat and professional looking). It COULD be done, but having the extra 'storage' in her car helps tremendously. If we were actively "out cruising," the clothes in her car would not be needed. The point is that this dimension is easier to manage from a slip than it is from anchor.
(3) We are only paying a couple of hundred dollars per month for a slip. Included in that is a range of services that are hard to put a price on. For example, we get ice, showers, access to the bathrooms, the clubhouse (with tv...we have no actual tv aboard the boat), discount at the adjacent motel (for us if we want or for family on a visit), holding tank pump-out and water is included (not metered). We have electric, but it is metered. We have coin laundry, but it is 30% or more cheaper than the local laundromats.
So, we could "save" a few hun a month by anchoring out. But, we'd have to (a) buy ice every day (in the summer at least), (b) pay 30% or more higher per month to do laundry, (c) pay for pump-outs at a local marina (I'd guess 2-3 times per month if we were on anchor and using the head/tank all or most of the time) and loose the intangible benefits of just being able to step off the boat to say let the children watch an hour of "Sponge Bob" or play baseball. In the end, without factoring the intangibles, I guess we are net out about $100 per month for what the hard costs save us, and that seems like a mighty small price for those intangibles and the comfort of being able to just step off the boat and go for a walk.
(note too that our boat is a small boat without 'shower,' fridge and a number of other amenities...we have no genset for example...)
I would seriously look at a marina if you are putting down some temporary roots in one location for the purpose of working/making money. Cruising, on the go, I'd NEVER recommend this...but it may just be worth the money depending on what slips cost where you are working. That's my big caveat...we are paying $6 a ft per month (or thereabouts) which is low compared to some places.
And that is the BIG kicker...the real point of this diatribe. There's no pat answer...it depends on a LOT of things.
On Edit:
PS: We kept our boat at anchor for a year and a half, but did not live aboard during that time.
Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 27, 2009, 10:35:51 PM
e
Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 27, 2009, 10:35:51 PM
My wife does not keep her work clothes on the boat (it's a matter of room/storage as well as keeping the clothes neat and professional looking). It COULD be done, but having the extra 'storage' in her car helps tremendously. If we were actively "out cruising," the clothes in her car would not be needed.
It ain't a car my man- haven't you learned by now? Sailing people don't HAVE cars- they have MSU's.
Mobile Storage Units
;D ;D
Quote from: Captain Smollett on July 27, 2009, 10:35:51 PM
I would seriously look at a marina if you are putting down some temporary roots in one location for the purpose of working/making money. Cruising, on the go, I'd NEVER recommend this...but it may just be worth the money depending on what slips cost where you are working. That's my big caveat...we are paying $6 a ft per month (or thereabouts) which is low compared to some places.
And that is the BIG kicker...the real point of this diatribe. There's no pat answer...it depends on a LOT of things.
Completely agree.
It changes your outfit as well. For example, I don't have solar panels. If I were to make a personal commitment to anchoring out for more than a year or so I would buy and fit solar, the cost of which would put a big dent in the "savings" of eschewing (I love that word) marinas.
Good post Charlie, Now I just have to teach the boat, don't have electrical problems, don't have mechicanical problems, don't wear anything out, Dinghy motor, run forever....etc....TJ
I don't think this is a marinas VS anchoring out arguement as both certainly have their place...
In the Caribbean affordable marinas are very few and far between and for most of us paying $45 a night to be tied up in close proximity to others and pointed in the wrong direction for our ventilation to work and supper high priced metered electric just does not mke sense(cents?)
My thoughts regarding anchoring were more about the theme of this forum which is "Sail Far" if you want to cruise and get away from the same old same anchoring has its advantages as you are not locked into one place, it is mostly free (though anchor charges are becoming more and more of a thorn in paradise) and so on. Anchoring is much more a part of the momentum factor than a marina nad momentum is key to successful cruising.
One of the great traps in the Go cruising game is the replacing the life you are trying to leave with a reasonable facsimile afloat of the one you are leaving. You can get a great deal in a marina if you do it long term and since you have to commit to a berth for three months, six...a year then the discussion gets into what dock box should I buy and what is a good car for a live-aboard boat guy.... Its easy to put down roots.
And I am not knocking the live-aboard folks or folks taking a year or two out of their cruising to build up the cruising kitty but it is important not to lose sight of your individual goals and factor them in.
Over the last year as part of a cruising DVD series we are making we have been interviewing a lot of cruisers and live-aboards about just how it all works for them, how they make a living afloat and how they can afford to cruise. Fact is what we thought would be a small part of one film has become three films as the mechanics of living afloat (not the sailing part) grew and took on a life of their own.
The one factor all of the successful cruisers had as part of their game plan was that they simply did it. Which sounds simplistic but really is not. To quote the Nike ad...Just do it!
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
Well, we are not looking for a facsimile of our life on land. Naive I know but the escape idea is what we really want to do but within reason. There will be some need during this time to work so thus some need for a marina. All your advice is helping us immensely with planning our route.
How it's looking so far. Start in Florida onto the Bahamas. As hurricane season approaches, cruise into Caribbean and potentially gunkhole there for hurricane season then onto Puerto Rico and VI for work(so a marina lease here). Were lucky Adina doesn't need a weekly based wardrobe onboard as she wears her uniform that can be kept at the job location.
Apart from a slip lease we can keep our budget very low on cruise 'cause we are not premadonnas (notice the Spaghetti o stain on my shirt).
With our budget we should be able to cruise for a year min. on the cash we have available to start without work then about 6 months of work for every year of cruise.
We know that what we want to do and what we may have to do are part of the art of cruising. Thanks again for all your supportive words and invaluable wisdom.
Greg
We just invited everyone we know over and let them walk away with stuff. What we can't get rid of that way we are going to donate.
Wife and I met backpacking and continued to live simply after that so I count it as a blessing that we are not faced with the need to recoup any money.
Of course we don't own anything of intrinsic value to begin with 'cause we are simple people so there was no real benefit in spending the time trying to sell the stuff.
Our photos and documents are being sent to my family and we will have little else than this computer by the end of the month and we are not even leaving till next year. Just work for 9 months but it's so much easier now that we know we are doing this.
Been having problems finding a boat to buy. Started making calls on listings (from sailboatlistings.com and more than a third have been sold a long time ago.) There are listings at yachtworld we are interested in but few in our price range that also meet the requirements. Looking for a broker in S. Fl willing to work hard finding such an innexpensive boat (anybody out there know someone?)
The awesome Ariel is still on the list but it's out in SF and were' not sure if we would buy it and have it transported to Southern Cal and then take her through the Panama Canal to our area of sail 'cause we don't want to pay for shipping to S. FL or if we are going to buy in S. FL.
It's hard buying from Chicago since we will have to have our choices down to a very few to be able to go and visit each of them before purchase.
I've arranged some interviews with jobs in Puerto Rico and the VI and still have my school looking for more and it seems this is getting better though.
9months to go....
Adina
Ok so this may be (fingers crossed) a BIG step toward our dream. I found this while perusing through yachtworld today. I called the seller and got a lot of information on it and if all goes well I will be checking the HIN tomorrow and talking with a broker.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Cape-Dory-Sloop-2059147/Palm-Coast/FL/United-States
Very well maintained and outfitted with most of what we need less a few odds and ends (according to seller). I requested the broker contact me tomorrow and if all goes well we will have it surveyed and we will pick her up.
We would have to work out something to keep her in the slip and have the seller keep an eye on her 'till we get down there in July of next year but it is such a good deal I have to see if we can indeed make this work.
Wish us luck,
Greg
::grin:: There's an excellent Cape Dory community (http://capedory.org/) if you do go with the 28. I can't be unbiased about the boat though - I have a Cape Dory 25D.
Just keep your fingers crossed for us. It's very well outfitted and an unbeatable deal.
Dear Greg and Adina,
Concerning your search for work in the VI, our experience while we lived there for two years, confirmed by similar opinions by many we've met, indicated no problem in finding work there. Such a small percentage of the people on St. Thomas are willing to work, that there is a perpetual labor shortage in the area. If you are drug-free, dependable, consciencious, and hard working, the word will spread like crazy. We had people coming to us so frequently trying to enlist us, that I had as many as three jobs at once, and in two years, had only one day off. The problem, therefore, will not be finding work, but finding time for yourselves. The people working on St. Thomas that are working often get so overworked, that they begin to develop "island fever" or "rock fever". A good practice is taking a vacation from paradise a couple weeks a year to return to the mainland and family.
We wish you the best.
Quote from: ThistleCap on August 02, 2009, 07:47:41 PM
Dear Greg and Adina,
Concerning your search for work in the VI, our experience while we lived there for two years, confirmed by similar opinions by many we've met, indicated no problem in finding work there. Such a small percentage of the people on St. Thomas are willing to work, that there is a perpetual labor shortage in the area. If you are drug-free, dependable, consciencious, and hard working, the word will spread like crazy. We had people coming to us so frequently trying to enlist us, that I had as many as three jobs at once, and in two years, had only one day off. The problem, therefore, will not be finding work, but finding time for yourselves. The people working on St. Thomas that are working often get so overworked, that they begin to develop "island fever" or "rock fever". A good practice is taking a vacation from paradise a couple weeks a year to return to the mainland and family.
We wish you the best.
Well, we meet that criteria for sure and it's good to hear this news. Now I just have to figure out how to get some sleep tonight while waiting to see if we are buying the Cape Dory tomorrow.
Greg,
Looks like a great deal, hope it works out!
Quote from: Cpt2Be on August 02, 2009, 06:26:28 PM
Ok so this may be (fingers crossed) a BIG step toward our dream. I found this while perusing through yachtworld today. I called the seller and got a lot of information on it and if all goes well I will be checking the HIN tomorrow and talking with a broker.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1978/Cape-Dory-Sloop-2059147/Palm-Coast/FL/United-States
Very well maintained and outfitted with most of what we need less a few odds and ends (according to seller). I requested the broker contact me tomorrow and if all goes well we will have it surveyed and we will pick her up.
We would have to work out something to keep her in the slip and have the seller keep an eye on her 'till we get down there in July of next year but it is such a good deal I have to see if we can indeed make this work.
Wish us luck,
Greg
She looks really good in the pics! Good Luck!
Dear Greg,
Just a couple thoughts---I've never seen a boat yet that didn't need work, and especially if you're hoping to take off in a year, it may take months to a year to get her shipshape and Bristol fashion. To do that work, you may want to get her close at hand and on the hard for the next year so you can work on her while finishing up your final shorebased details. If indeed you want to leave her for a year in Florida, I'd find a secure yard where she could be hauled and put on the hard with her rig removed. If well blocked, that gives you the best protection from the storms that may sweep up through Florida this time of year. Also, insurance will be less if hauled, and many insurance companies won't insure in Florida during hurricane season if in the water. If the marina where she is located is not well protected, you may wish to move her.
Quote from: ThistleCap on August 02, 2009, 11:51:26 PM
Dear Greg,
Just a couple thoughts---I've never seen a boat yet that didn't need work, and especially if you're hoping to take off in a year, it may take months to a year to get her shipshape and Bristol fashion. To do that work, you may want to get her close at hand and on the hard for the next year so you can work on her while finishing up your final shorebased details. If indeed you want to leave her for a year in Florida, I'd find a secure yard where she could be hauled and put on the hard with her rig removed. If well blocked, that gives you the best protection from the storms that may sweep up through Florida this time of year. Also, insurance will be less if hauled, and many insurance companies won't insure in Florida during hurricane season if in the water. If the marina where she is located is not well protected, you may wish to move her.
Indeed it needs to be hauled to make a repair he mentioned on the phone and waiting to hear back from him on what exactly it is and when it was last bottom painted. From what I understand it is a secured marina & yard and since we would not be taking delivery until July were trying to negotiate if he can keep an eye on her until then. His wife is a broker at the marina and they have a few boats in slip there. Tentatively and after I get some responses to the questions we have we will have her surveyed and work out something toward hauling and securing her for the hurricane season since we can't break away from Chicago until July possibly Mch if I head down earlier than Adina to take care of shoring her and I up. There are quite a few things we would need for certain that aren't included.
GPS/Charts/Radar (has a VHF that's new and autopilot, don't know about wind vane) since he moved all of his nav to his new boat. :(
Dinghy/outboard for dinghy (way more expensive than I thought)
Solar Panel & Charger (absolutely no idea what I should be looking at so any help here would be awesome) No luxury items aboard just needed for battery charging vs boat electronics amp hours and going to read up on this today but if you can point me in the right direction....
Clothing. Sail related. We have all the wool clothing you could imagine (We live in cold Chicago) but need our wet weather gear...gloves/jackets/pants/shoes
And of course haul out and hard fees until we take delivery.
All things I'm working on now and definitely before we buy but that's about the sum of what I can see anyway that are our associated costs outside of purchase.
I have the nav stuff under controll but any help pointing me in the right direction for a innexpensive/adequette (I know long long discussion here) dinghy and solar charger kits would be helpfull
If you are interested in a Cape Dory 28 I believe Fenix is for sale in Florida and more than ready to head out again...
http://www.sbastro.com/FeNIX/mainFrameSet.htm
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
Well, the HIN came back clean which is good news and I am trying to find out what it's going to cost to finish the outfitting right now. It looks like it will still come in on Budget for the boat purchase and remaining outfitting but I have to find some solid figures.
Mostly on a dinghy and the solar panel charger. I pieced together the nav equipment and GPS/Charts/Radar and wind vane shouldn't cost more than $750
so that puts me at $10750.
Dinghy's boy it's a huge market and tough for me to decide whats necessary and whats bloated. Again I am in the dark still on solar panel chargers.
Doing some very rough estimates on the remaining outfitting we would push towards our budget very close.
Looks like we are going to keep looking.
No big deal realy after all this was the first real consideration.
If I can give you any advice, it would be to slow down. As I've said before, more money as been wasted and bad purchases made because of media hyp (boat shows, magazine ads and articles, etc.) than any other cause. I understand the need to support the marine industry, and support the sponsors of magazines, but too many get spoon-fed a bill of goods that they don't need. I'll admit up front that I'm a very conservative operator, so I don't jump at every flashy ad. My practice has always been to sail and enjoy the boat and places and allow them and my experience to dictate the boat's needs and what I buy. While you're out cruising, sail with other sailors and learn from their experiences in the field rather than promotional material in ads. Distinguish between what you need versus what you fancy. It's not just a matter of buying it. Maintenance costs will eat you alive.
Why do you need radar? If you're sailing near the Arctic or Antarctic ice flows or where you experience a lot of fog and snow, radar helps. If you're going to be doing a lot of night operation in the oil fields, radar is almost a must. Otherwise, radar will probably be a waste. Radar is not a cure-all. It will not paint well on anything wood, fiberglass, low lying, small, or round. Most of the reefs you will run onto are too low lying for radar to pick up. This leaves much of the world for you to run into even if you do have radar. Radar is a good tool, but wait to see if your operating justifies the expense.
Oh I totally get you and do understand. This particular boat was just a very good opportunity either way we looked at her.
As far as radar goes thanks for that info.
Hey Greg,
Really dig your plan. I only wish my wife shared your thirst for a little adventure and a simple life. I hope it all comes together for you.
I'm not one for unsolicited advice as I've received my own fair share of it throughout my sailing career, but I can't recommend enough to get out and crew on some distance cruises or races with your wife. It really gives you a sobering dose of what life aboard a boat is with no speedy way home. I'm not suggesting that you'll be talked out of sailing or anything, but it sets your expectations and also makes you more aware of what you want in a boat, on your boat, etc...
I had read every rough weather, and renowned boat handling book there is, and my first time out this year I was pushed into a seawall by a nasty squall that came literally out of nowhere. I was in a trusty ole Pearson Ensign. They say full keelers don't make much leeway, and they are bulletproof, but apparently I am not. I had full sail up, sheets hauled as tight as a colorful metaphor and I got pushed directly sideways into the seawall. I flat out panicked as I had never been in anything like that. I shouldn't have tried to beat the squall into the harbor, I should have immediately eased out the mainsheet, or had the balls to jibe her round before she hit but I was terrified and frozen.
Checked the weather buoys in the harbor later that night - the highest gust registered was 35 knots. I have been since completely humbled, as to some experienced sailors, 35 knots is "fun sailing" :)
In any case, don't take me for a nay-sayer because what you're doing is awesome.
I take everything at face value and don't read to much into anyhting most certainly not negatively. Your advice that all of you are given I'm sure will either be something I was so very happy I listened to or very angry I did not pay enough attention to but never anything I saw as being nay saying.
Greg
I've had at least two trips on a sailboat where I swore I'd never set foot on a sailboat again. I've always gotten the itch back within a week tho :)
Get out as much as you can though. Different boats, different skippers. I've found just going down to the yacht club bar and talking with a few folks will almost always land you on a boat and gets you out in conditions that your average sailing school won't permit. I had one guy last summer even invite me back after I spent the majority of the race throwing up off the back of his Merit 25. I'll never buy a flat bottom light displacement little racer....
I would 2nd a vote for Slow down. Also- Don't buy a boat and leave it away from you. You will find lots more wrong with it. You need it next to you so you can work your butt off on it the next 9 months.
I agree, Move to Fl and then buy the boat. Boats are for sale all the time and you should be able to find one in a month if oyu know what to look for and how. A lot of elderly have boats that they can nolonger use.
I've got a few thoughts as I was in the same predicament awhile ago.
Think about getting under a ten foot beam. You can usually find someone that'll let you loan/rent a trailer. U-haul truck for a few hours and you've hauled your own boat and brought it to your own house/friend's to do bottom maintenance and repair. Or trailer inland to avoid hurricanes while staying at an RV park, I met someone who did it.
Look at boats with a blown inboard. When I was looking, these boats were consistently 4-5 thousand cheaper. An outboard will run you under a grand and are easier to pull off and do overhauls and maintenance. And after you take out the old gas tank (replaced with portables) you'd be amazed at how much space is under the cockpit.
Irwin 10/4s and 28s are found for good deals. I bought my 28 for $4000, sails are a year old and 9.9 Nissan LS is a year old. I basically got the rest of the boat for free. 3' draft, 9'beam, 6'2" headroom, and has a head.
Irwins had issues with hull to deck leaking, but is a fairly easy to fix to re-bed it, as you said you're handy.
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/8796
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/7067
http://newhaven.en.craigslist.org/boa/1305168106.html
Well, Adina and I have been out a few times on a friends boat and have had an absolute blast then it was back to land and the dream.
We both learned quite a bit and between the reading and these few daysails we are more confident then ever.
Spent the past few weeks trying to narrow our options down and decided we will leave Chicago for either CA to buy that Ariel in the SF bay (the only west coast boat we have seen that intrests us & of course if she's still for sale by then) or if we are going to move to Florida and buy from the market out there sometime in March.
There have been a few boats of intrest in between but transport costs is something we can easily avoid by purchasing near where we want to be anyway.
We had a apartment giveaway over the past few weeks and we have dumped everything but our clothing and this computer.
It's going to be a long winter waiting to do this but that's ok since we know now we are really doing it. Not much else to tell ya till then unless something changes drastically in the next 7 months like winning the lottery (lol we dont even play so that would be something)
Adina and I celebrate our 16 year anniversary this Sat & Sunday and we are going out on a daysail and as many as we can before winter.
Hope you all are out there yourselves.
See ya when I have some new info
Greg
Congrats on 16 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds like the best sure is to come ;)
Get one of the computer sailing games, it helps.
As a '77 'Cherubini' Hunter owner, I have to recommend it as roomy, strong and a sweet sailer...but Cape Dory is a great sea boat. You can't go wrong.
I know this is old, but the forgotten gem is the Precision 28, if you can find one. Very capable, has everything you are looking for - AND, you can trailer it wherever you are going at around 8000 lbs. PM me if you want gory details.