[I've also posted this question on the Cape Dory board]
Folks, here's a question I'm almost ashamed to ask:
Last winter's severe storms caused drastic shifting and shoaling to the narrow, unmarked channel into Squeteague Harbor. As a result, I have run Creme Brulee aground more times than I care to admit, usually when entering or leaving at a dead-low tide.
This is embarrassing, since I've had a mooring in the harbor since 1988 (although I sailed a catboat until 2003), but not really serious. The bottom is soft sand and mud. So, when I get stuck, I lower the swim ladder, hop overboard and push her back into the channel.
But here's my problem: It's September and the water--and air--are getting cold, and I usually keep the boat in the water through October and sometimes into November. I recently read an article (possibly in Good Old Boat) about using one or two lightweight anchors to kedge off. The article refers to small Bruce anchors, but I'm wondering what Sailfar members use.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
--Joe
I LOVE my little Fortress FX-7.
She lives in the Lazy-Rat hatch on top of 6' of 5/16 chain, and 75' of 1/2" 3 strand. (power boater rode). ;D
Serves as a quick-deploy 'parking brake' if need be.
(http://www.anchorexpress.com/v/vspfiles/photos/FX-7-2T.gif)
I can toss the 4# anchor quite a ways... with a proper coil of line and the chain looped I can probably get it a couple boat lengths.
If I want to kedge aft, I throw it from the stern but then walk forward to take the line. This distance does alot to help increase the scope.
I looked at a little bruce once at Bacon and Associates... I think it was like 5#s. Not sure I like the profile thought. My Fortress will lay flat, the flaked rode and anchor sit about 6" deep.
We carry a4lb true Danforth with 4 feet of chain and 50 feet of 1/2 3 strand
For our kedge we don't use three strand or any line that will stretch. Use an old halyard (for example) as the no stretch factor is what you want in a situation when you want to pull yourself off something.
Not that I'd actually know anything about running aground...
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
Thanks for the suggestions, folks.
I've got an old West Marine ripoff of the Danforth somewhere in the basement. It might do the trick, especially if I use double-braided line as a rode.
The Cape Dory crowd suggested that I tow a dinghy--which would be the surest way to get a kedge anchor far enough from the boat to get some traction. But I don't generally sail with my tender off the stern.
--Joe
LOL- When Laura did her single hand cruise (see home page for Tehani) she got aground and winched herself off using 3 strand. I had to replace the bow roller cause she put so much pressure on it she deformed the durned thing-grin. It may stretch, but the stretch stops eventually.
I don't use no stretch line for anchoring- I WANT it to stretch a bit.
Charlie:
I always use three-strand as my anchor rode.
But in the case of a lightweight, throwable anchor used for kedging, perhaps stretch isn't what I'd want.
Or am I wrong?
--Joe
Are you kidding me? You had me all excited with the prospect of "throwing" the anchor out there. In my mind I envisioned a glorious anchor arcing through the air trailing a thin line....
All afternoon I had been pondering some sort of device that would propel an anchor fairly far. Perhaps a small turret mounted on the transom, ready to go at a moments notice, just pull the trigger (ok, ok, I was actually thinking of some surgical tubing.....) Heck you could carry a few extra anchors and the entire system would double for self defense!
I think your idea of projectile anchoring deserves a second look! I'm sure there must be many benefits to this system ;)
I can see it now... "I've got a crossbow that shoots fortresses, no really, it actually shoots fortresses...." :)
Joe- I am always getting off mud when in Florida. I like the dingy- row twice as far as you will need and drop your anchor. Then winch yourself off. Trail a dingy for a few months- it will teach you humility. :)
Quote from: s/v necessity on September 09, 2009, 10:07:43 PM
Are you kidding me? You had me all excited with the prospect of "throwing" the anchor out there. In my mind I envisioned a glorious anchor arcing through the air trailing a thin line....
All afternoon I had been pondering some sort of device that would propel an anchor fairly far. Perhaps a small turret mounted on the transom, ready to go at a moments notice, just pull the trigger (ok, ok, I was actually thinking of some surgical tubing.....) Heck you could carry a few extra anchors and the entire system would double for self defense!
I think your idea of projectile anchoring deserves a second look! I'm sure there must be many benefits to this system ;)
I can see it now... "I've got a crossbow that shoots fortresses, no really, it actually shoots fortresses...." :)
If you are shallow enough to run aground, you don't need to dingy out your kedge.
----------------------------------------------------------
A good friend of mine described a spring loaded 'anchor launcher' that was mounted on the bow of a boat. He has never let the truth get in the way of a good story, but there is usually some element of reality.... never know. :)
"If you are shallow enough--etc"
BIG grin- never run aground in Texas 'pluf mud' have you?
Try wading one out then- you'll sink to your knees at least-best to dinghy it out for sure.
Thanks for the feedback. It's been helpful.
General wisdom, here and on the CD board, seems to favor towing a dinghy. So, I guess I'll start doing so when the water and air turn too cold for a quick leap overboard and the tide is low.
I wish I could recall where I had read about keeping two lightweight Bruce anchors for kedging . . .
--Joe
There is a real big difference between kedging and anchoring. Sure you can use three strand nylon to kedge off but you double the amount of work involved (nylon will stretch to 50% of its length). The more imprtant reason is all grounding are not benign and more often than not when people find themselves kedging off it is needful to get off in a hurry.
Sure you could also use stretchy nylon three strand for your halyards as well but one of the neat things about the whole sailing gig for me at least is using the right tool for the job.
Also in my experience the kedge is used as often for running a line to the mast top to carene the boat over so you can get off that way...
Anyway I've done it both ways and once you see the difference of kedging with less than stretchy line you won't want to do it any other way.
Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/
I found the article, on pages 52-3 of the latest issue of Good Old Boat, entitled "Kedge and Kedge Again; a pair of throwable anchors is a valuable aid to "ungrounding."
The author, John Jamieson, says he carries two very small (2 1/2-lb.) Bruce-style anchors, each with about 100 feet of line, in his cockpit lockers. He describes how he alternates tossing them off the stern and winching in until he kedges off a soft grounding.
Since nobody on this, or the CD board, has heard of the technique, I wonder how widespread it is.
The little anchors (at least the Horizon Claw versions) are not very expensive, so I might give it a try.
Of course, I don't really plan to run aground any time soon. ;D
--Joe
Quote from: Oldrig on September 10, 2009, 02:21:24 PM
"Of course, I don't really plan to run aground any time soon. ;D
--Joe"
I feel the same way Joe.....I never have
and I've never picked my nose either :o ;) :D
While small danforths might work, I'd think you'd be better off with a small anchor, like the bruce, that is less likely to foul as it drops. I'd try two small Deltas... but it really depends a lot on what the bottom conditions are.
Well, I bought a pair of tiny (1 kg/1.2 lbs) Lewmar Claws, each with 75 feet of 3/8 double-braid polyester line. the line cost more than the anchors.
Since it's a new moon this weekend, I might get to test them out.
On the other hand, it would be nice NOT to run aground.
Will send a progress report.
Cheers,
--Joe
The mini-Claws didn't work!
OK, yesterday was one of the lowest low tides of the year. And, sure enough, I ran aground again.
Only this time I had equipped Creme Brulee with two 1 kg. Lewmar Claw anchors, each with 75 feet of 3/8-inch poly double braid.
The anchors were easy to toss, but they didn't do anything other than bring mud into my cockpit.
So, I jumped overboard and pushed. A neighbor also helped with her little runabout.
The boat got off the mudbank, even as the tide was continuing to drop.
But the tiny anchors didn't seem to have anough bite to give me any pull.
Perhaps it was because the tide was falling, or perhaps it was because the bottom is very soft mud (as I discovered when cleaning the cockpit sole afterwards.
So, now I've got two great dinghy anchors, I guess.
--Joe
P.S. At least I found a sure-fire way to discover the exact location of the channel: I walked it! At dead low tide it's only about 10 feet across (and my boat has an 8-foot beam). Luckily this misadventure took place in September, rather than in late October. I hadn't intended to take a swim, but it wasn't too cold, and the sun was still bright.
Quote from: Oldrig on September 21, 2009, 10:47:01 AM
At dead low tide it's only about 10 feet across (and my boat has an 8-foot beam).
Presumably, your max draft does not extend the full beam. My boat draws 4' 3", but that is only the width of the full keel.
Still, a 10 ft channel is a pretty slim needle to thread.
Quote from: Oldrig on September 21, 2009, 10:47:01 AM
The mini-Claws didn't work!
What did they do, just drag through the mud?
I think your experience demonstrates why Danforth / Fortress style anchors are so popular for kedging -- their holding to weight ratio is very high and the potential of rotating out in current reversals isn't relevant.
I can't prove it, but I suspect that if you can recover from a grounding by throwing an anchor you could probably have refloated by other means.
For my part once I have got the dinghy in the water to take a kedge out I've already done so much work already I drop the main bow anchor (55#!) into a sling behind the dinghy and all my chain into a bucket in dinghy and run it all out. It takes a few feet to set the Rocna that way but the rest of the rode goes directly to pulling me off.
Quote from: skylark on September 21, 2009, 10:25:47 PM
What did they do, just drag through the mud?
Yes, they just dragged up some mud and weed.
But I simply couldn't toss them far enough to get a good shallow angle.
Quote from: Captain Smollett on September 21, 2009, 08:17:25 PM
Presumably, your max draft does not extend the full beam. My boat draws 4' 3", but that is only the width of the full keel. Still, a 10 ft channel is a pretty slim needle to thread.
True--once I figured out where the channel was, I was able to make it, slowly, through the channel.
Still, I think I'll make sure that I have plenty of refreshments, warm clothes and perhaps a good book next time I get grounded. Then I can drop the hook and wait. Of course this will mean I'll have to endure the taunts of all my catboat-sailing neighbors as they glide past me over the bar.
Quote from: Auspicious on September 22, 2009, 08:46:27 AM
I think your experience demonstrates why Danforth / Fortress style anchors are so popular for kedging -- their holding to weight ratio is very high and the potential of rotating out in current reversals isn't relevant.
That's what my 89-year-old father, who commanded an LCI during WWII, keeps reminding me. Of course, he used his anchors to run aground (and kedge back off again).
--Joe
I'd imagine that kedging anchors that are less than 10 lbs. aren't going to be very effective under even the most benign conditions. IMHO, like all anchors, your kedge anchors should be as heavy as possible....
Quote from: s/v Faith on September 09, 2009, 11:21:16 AM
I LOVE my little Fortress FX-7......
......I can toss the 4# anchor quite a ways... with a proper coil of line and the chain looped I can probably get it a couple boat lengths.
If I want to kedge aft, I throw it from the stern but then walk forward to take the line. This distance does alot to help increase the scope......
The fortress is light, but works well.
QuoteBut I simply couldn't toss them far enough to get a good shallow angle.
No, hard to do. But that is what I was saying in my original post on this thread. BUT if you toss it off the boat (lets say you get it 10' away, probably 2x that) Then you carry the rode to the other end of the boat.
Ok, lets say Faith is aground. The water under the boat is going to be less then 4' deep. I toss the anchor aft... lets say it goes 10'... probably more, but lets say 10'. If is stand where I throw it from and pull, my scope is around 2:1... not going to work.
However if I take the line to the bow, I now have added 25' to the scope. Now I have 35' of line between me and the anchor... now I am more like 5:1 or better.
Pulling the anchor to set it, even if it takes a few feet to set is going to give me a much better chance.... without getting the dingy involved or getting out of the boat.
Quote from: s/v Faith on September 22, 2009, 12:43:33 PM
If I want to kedge aft, I throw it from the stern but then walk forward to take the line. This distance does alot to help increase the scope......
Interesting idea. Perhaps if, after tossing the li'l anchor off the stern, I had run the rode through the anchor roller at the bow and then back to my mainsheet winch . . . but I suspect that a 2.2-lb. anchor is just too light to do the trick.
--Joe
I've been thinking all along that for an anchor as small as that to have any holding (and at the same time still set), it would take a pretty special situation. Even with 10:1 scope. (I suspect this does work for the author of the article, but that it's not applicable for many situations) There simply isn't enough surface area (on an anchor that small) to make much purchase in mud. For there to be a chance of working the substrate will have to be easy for the anchor to penetrate, and yet competent enough to resist the anchor just pulling through it.
If the requirements are Light weight (so you can throw it) and lots of resistance to a straight line pull in mud. The best thing out there for both of these needs is probably an aluminum danforth.
Quote from: Oldrig on September 22, 2009, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: s/v Faith on September 22, 2009, 12:43:33 PM
If I want to kedge aft, I throw it from the stern but then walk forward to take the line. This distance does alot to help increase the scope......
Interesting idea. Perhaps if, after tossing the li'l anchor off the stern, I had run the rode through the anchor roller at the bow and then back to my mainsheet winch . . . but I suspect that a 2.2-lb. anchor is just too light to do the trick.
--Joe
Yes, this works well. Taking the line in a snatch block (or even through a chalk) does another good thing. It gets your weight off of the bow (which is usually the hardest aground).