For the novice = Always be sure the sea cock / through hull is closed before greasing it. This pertains to true Sea Cocks fitted with a zirk fitting.
Somehow, I'm getting the impression you found this out the hard way! :D ::)
Yep I found it out after having to unplug several sea cocks on a sea scout boat. Teach em young and teach em right.
Speaking of sea cocks... I do not know if you guy were joking about the lube stuff.
Two things:
On my islander there is a marine head with holding tank. The whole system looks like it has never been used. THe seacock at the head is stuck closed.
I was thinking to take off the rubber hose, fill the inside of the valve with WD-40 or something llike that and let it sit, then try to work it open ( with hose back on)...any better ideas?
Maybe wait until the boat is on the hard , then just replace the whole unit?
I hear about having cork or wooden plugs at the seaCocks, just in case of something going wrong. How does one find these, or have them made?
On the other hand, is these have valves, seems like on would just close the valve, unless it is broken of course...
thinking with my fingers...
Zen,
I keep a bag of wooden plugs on board you can find them at Worst Marine.
--------------------------------------------------------
This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.
S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27 (Featured Boat Lats & Atts Oct. 05)
Yes, you can get them at west marine or about any marine place. DON'T try to get fancy and get the teak ones that someone advertises, they should be softwood.
They are meant to be used if the valve breaks off the thru-hull at the threads or is rendered useless (froze up, etc.) or, as in one case I am very familiar with, you go to change the transducer and have the wrong plug ready and drop the transducer and cant find it because the water pushed it WAY under the other stuff in the locker, and water is pouring in!
I'd get some if I were you.
:)
I know this is a basic question, but what do you use as grease? Anything special?
wooden plugs are a must have iteams. you might never use them, but when you get a small hole below the water line...or even above it some cases, they sure come in handy. I got mine from a marine store and they were the plain jane type and on sell. they costed less then $5. a year later a fella had his boat struck by lightning and it messed up a through hull. I was walking the dock and noticed the soles was half full so I jumped down there and drove the stakes through the hole like I was Van Helsing at a vampire fest.. the guy's girl friend saw me and my brother in their boat and called the cops but the cops was a boater and he just luaghed it off and the owner offered us a free lunch for the trouble...and kept my stake. keep them where you can to them in a hurry.
as for the type of grease, on my tube it simply read's "TEXICO marine grease, for use in marine enviroment". and then it gives you list of things it would be useful for.
I wish I could be of more help there but the grease was a give me, from the boatyard. someone opened it and used about 10% of it then was going to toss it in a dumpster but yard owner said it was not allowed to do that. so I got it for free. lol
Bill
Get the proper size plug for each through-hull, drill a hole across the top, run a string through it, and tie the other end to the corresponding fitting. That way, if you ever need it, it's right there.
OR-
You can do like I've done on Tehani.
I removed ALL the thruhulls, glassed over the holes and painted. I now have NO openings in the boat below the water line. She had 7 (yeah- SEVEN) when I started. 4 of them with NO seacocks- just pipes glassed to the hull with hoses stuck on them. Gave me the shudders just looking at the things.
Of course you have to use a porta potti if you do that, but that hasn't proven to be much of a drawback considering:)
A reply to Pixie Dust
A favorite among Cape Dory owners that have bronze Spartan Seacocks is:
Morey's Super Red Premium
Water Proof
Multi-purpose E.P. Grease
Part No. M3209
Morey's Oil Products Company
8015 Paramount Blvd.
Pico Rivera, Ca. 90660
The standard grease cartridge is white with red and black text and has a red plastic cap on one end.
NAPA info:
Part # 3209
Line: NCB
Description: Morey's
Price: $5.69
By the way, I was admiring your boat in the Pic Galley...very nice.
Dick
A reply to Dick,
Thank you!! Being a female, I often need "specifics" since this aspect is new to me. But I am learning and enjoying it at the same time! I was not aware seacocks even needed greasing until this thread. :) I do at least open and close routinely to keep them from freezing up.
Thank you for the PD compliments. She is sure special to me.
In my old marina, I had a beautiful 29' Cape Dory Sail beside of me. It was an early 80's or late 70's model. Absolutely beautiful boats and she sailed wonderfully. Down below was gorgeous. They used Kramer's Antique Oil on their wood below which made it glow. That is what I use now on my interior wood.
Reply to Pixie Dust:
All you do is disassemble them one at a time so you don't mix parts, some people just wipe with a clean rag, I clean with kerosene (Home Depot), dry, and coat with a light coat of grease and reassemble. Don't over grease or you won't get them to fit together very easily and the excess is just squeezed out of the barrel any how. Also don't overtighten the nut either. Just enough turn so that you can move the seacock with a slight resistance (and of course no leaking). Doing this yearly and a good quality seacock will probably last the life of the boat.
Charlie :-
you offer a far too simple solution for all the wanna-have-trubble types :
I agree with you 110% - my boat had a wonderfull porta-potty with a simple hand-pump and access to pump-out. The 2 cockpit holes drained on the opposite side , above the waterline - these were the only wooden stoppers I had use for.
I am looking to buy another boat now and will continue the tradition.
safe - secure - and relaxing peace of mind
retired from stress - kris the kruiser...
Im looking for 4 each
Groco 1.5 inch size rubber seacock inserts SV1506
Factory sold last one last week
I know its time to upgrade however, time is an issue at the moment
NOS stock is fine..Top Dollar paid
Iceman
Iceman,
I was told that they sold the last ones a year ago when I checked, a year ago. Don't know if they found more, or if that's the standard line.
If yours are just dry, try boiling them in water and applying lithium grease or vaseline and re installing. If they are shot, I'm afraid that short of having someone make new ones, you're out of luck. I haven't had mine apart. I assume that the rubber mounts on a shaft, and is screwed down, much like a faucet washer. Could you sandwich several rubber washers on the shaft? Or maybe cut rings from an old tire (non steel belted) and fit them on ? Just a thought.
Larry Wilson
Thanks
The present ones are still usable, Im just lookin for spares
and for the just in case scenario
Ice
Actually
Its more of a panic attack..I like things perfect
If any members see these in a store where they live
Give me a Yell
Ice
on things that could sink your boat, perfect is good ;D
I just need one after all
Let me know if anybody finds one
Ice
Quote from: watsongs on January 17, 2006, 01:36:09 AM
Get the proper size plug for each through-hull, drill a hole across the top, run a string through it, and tie the other end to the corresponding fitting. That way, if you ever need it, it's right there.
You really also should put it in a plastic bag... The vacuum food sealers work great for this... you can make custom bags for each plug. The string and hole are a good idea, so you can tie the plug into the fitting, so the water pressure doesn't push it out before it swells up as the water soaks the softwood plug.
Since the safety plugs are supposed to be softwood and are supposed to swell up with the water soaking them to hold them in position...keeping the plugs dry before you use them is CRITICAL.
As for greasing the seacocks, anhydrous lanolin is quite good for it, and won't wash away....
Somewhere in the past the forward bronze seacocks were replaced with Marlon. They operate well, require no lubrication, and are not subject to electrolysis.
The two aft cockpit drains were originally plumbed straight through, but one of the prior owners switched over to ball valves. This is not satisfactory for a couple of reasons.
First, ball valves do not transmit shearing or torsion forces to the hull. They require that the base of the through hull carry any load applied. A tool box sliding into a mounted ball valve in a seaway will be much more likely to break it off then damage a properly installed seacock.
The second problem is that ball valves are rarely constructed to wistand the corrosive environment a seacock is asked to function in. Many have stainless balls that rotate in nylon sleeves. This probably works great on a farm, but not so well when submerged in salt water, and removed and lubricated, or even operated on a regular basis.
As though to prove my belief about ball valves not belonging on a boat, both of mine have failed. The handles move, but when I closed the port side valve to inspect the sink drain (also plumbed to the cockpit drain) the water ingress did not slow down.
I now have to replace both the valves.
This long and rambling post was intended to ask if anyone knows of any legitmate reason not to go with Marlon seacocks aft?
Marelon is the only plastic I'd recommend using for any through hulls or seacocks that are below the waterline on a boat. They're made of glass-reinforced nylon. Unre-inforced plastic through hulls are a really bad idea...as even a small impact, in cold weather, can cause them to fracture IIRC.
Just my $.02 worth.
I installed two Marelon seacocks on my boat after I bought her. They haven't leaked or anything but when I twist the handle it flexes quite a bit-I find it disconcerting. I'm always worried that it will break. I think I'd go with bronze if I had it to do over.
Oded Kishony
Oded,
Do you remember what brand they are? The forespar brand marlon seacocks I have up fwd (1" and 2") seem pretty solid. ???...
I don't recall what brand, but I bought them at West Marine. I wonder if I should have greased them brefore installing? No one mentioned it and I didn't see any instructions indicating this. They seem to be very stiff and hard to turn.
Oded
One thing, IIRC, Forespar is the owner of the Marelon trademark, and the only manufacturer of Marelon seacocks. If the ones Oded got aren't from Forespar, they probably aren't marelon, and that may be why they seem a bit weak. The ones on my boat are Forespar marelon seacocks and even though a few are rather stiffer than I'd like, seem pretty solid to me.
Hi ,
This is what West Marine is selling these days:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/12108/0/0/Marelon%20seacock/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0
It's made by Forespar. While the handle felt very solid at first, after it was installed the action seemed much stiffer and the handle flexed too much. My suggestion is to look carefully into whether this seacock needs to be lubricated prior to installation.
Oded
Hi Dan,
>I have very similar looking seacocks on my boat...and they seem to be fine. <
Did you grease them when you installed them or since? I'm wondering if that's the reason mine are too stiff.
~OK
Nope... :)
Oded,
downloaded this from the Forespar web page.
Marelon® - Marine Grade Plumbing Systems Valve Lubrication
As a follow up to previous Tech Tips; it is important to know that while Marelon® fixings are corrosion resistant, they do require twice yearly lubrication maintenance. These valves should be activated on a regular schedule. The handle should be moved throughout the open/close path every thirty days. Leaving a valve open or closed without moving the handle can cause freeze-up. This is true of any valve, including bronze. The law of nature is "use it or loose it".
To lubricate ball valves and seacocks while the boat is in the water you must:
1. Close valve.
2. Remove hose from tailpipe.
3. Remove remaining water from valve/tailpipe.
4. Swab waterproof grease (water pump grease, winch grease) or LanoCote™, generously, on ball.
5. Reattach hose, checking for fatigue and rusted hose clamps.
6. Activate valve a few times. When boat is hauled, you can perform steps 4-6 from outside the hull to lubricate opposite side of ball and seals.
Thanks Larry,
Yes, I've discovered that rotating the handle back and forth several times help to limber it up. I'm going to start lubricating it regularly.
Oded
Greetings:
I'm planning the work I'll be doing this winter, after my boat get hauled.
There are two old thru hulls for the head that are no longer in service, (a ball valve/screw type) and a seacock.
Ideally I'd like to remove the thru hull and glass it over, but not enough time to do that this winter. I'm thinking of removing the two units and replacing them with end caps, of the type you typically see in home plumbing.
Question: is this a reasonable thing to do? Will it make those thru hulls safer?
If the answer is yes, then should I use a plastic cap or a metal one? Is there such a cap designed for marine application?
Thanks,
Oded Kishony
Oded-
I think you'd be better off leaving the thru-hulls and seacocks in place, and attaching an endcap to the pipe that comes out of the seacock...that way if someone accidentally opens it, the water won't come flooding in. I don't think putting an end cap in the hull would really be sufficiently strong to keep the water out if you encounter heavy seas or rougher weather, and could put you and your boat at risk.
Adriftatsea writes:
>I think you'd be better off leaving the thru-hulls and seacocks in place, and >attaching an endcap to the pipe that comes out of the seacock...<
My intention was to leave the thru hull in place, remove the seacock and gatevalave and screw the end cap over the thru hull. (the inside of the thru hull is usually a threaded pipe)
I can imagine the gate valved seacock, which is original (1978) breaking or springing a leak.
OTOH the inside opening of seacocks is not threaded, so I don't know how I would attach an end cap to it. Pehaps solder or glue it in place?
Oded Kishony
Ahh... yes that is probably the way to go...I thought you were going to remove the through-hulls, and then embed the end cap in the hole in the hull. :o
My experience is that there is a better then 80% chance that you just will not be able to convince fittings that old to neatly seperate. So "just" unscrewing the valves form the through hulls may quickly lead you to "interesting times".
One of the most likely things that will happen is that the action of unscrewing the valve will, despite best attempts against this" begin to spin the through hull fitting, thus killing the caulking and requiring its removal and replacement etc....
You can buy "blind" through hulls(just like a normal one, but with a blank plate across where the hole normals is)...but I am of two minds about these, and would prefer to think of them as short term solutions.
I think that the "easy" cure remains Mr Drifty's suggestion of leaving the valves and mounting the plug cap in place of where the hoses started. If you do not have a lot of time to deal with consequenses of things not quite going to plan, then this is the safest bet. It is kind of ugly...but you did say you were coming back to this and doing proper glassing of the hull later.
Alex.
P.S My experience nowadays is to just assume that the easiest way to remove an old valve on a boat (especialy ex toilet fittings) is some water as coolent and an angle grinder around the valve collar, then a quick two cuts of the through-hul's nut and a tap with a hammer to knock the remainder out. They just bind up and weld themselves into inexoharble messes (or masses) and there is just no way to insure that the integrity of the through hull caulking has not been compromised by the toqueing around on the valve with big spanners. Given that $25 for a new through hull is still cheaper then finding you need to haul the boat all over again because the through hulls now leak....I tend to just replace the whole lot if it comes to that. Younger valves, and those made of composite attached to metal through hulls tend to be different and come off with more pleasent regularity.
Oded- If it were my boat, I seriously think I'd find or MAKE the time to just remove them and glass over the holes. Shouldn't take more than 2 half days to do it and then you don't have to concern yourself with the openings at all, ever.
Part of it really depends on whether the through-hulls are the type that have bolts and a flange on the inside, and if the seacocks have the flange (http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C51%7C106370%7C316448%7C319675&id=101924) or are just fitted to the through-hull. If they have the bolts, removing them may be almost as much work as removing the throug-hull and glassing over the opening. Glassing over the opening would be far more secure, and less vulnerable to galvanic corrosion, lightning strikes, freezing, etc.
Oded
I have used caps on the head and sink thru hulls on my 8.7, and while it's a good temp fix, it isn't the best way to go. I am paranoid to the point that I check them when I arrive, while I'm sailing and before I leave the boat.
If you can find bronze nipples that will match the thread on hte gate valves, and bronze caps that will fit the nipples , it will probably be fine. If however you want to remove the thru hulls and glass over them, I will be glad to help you with it. As stated, it really isn't that time consuming, and I have all the supplies needed, on hand.
Total cost if materials is probably less than $10.00 and I will donate my labor, and expertise,(which is pretty much worthless, I mean priceless, anyway.
Let me know. We could knock it out in a couple of days, and it doesn't have to be consecutive days. The holes could be prepared one day, and the glassing over at a later date.
Larry
Alex,
I agree. Experience trumps all the speculation and 'I have read it on the internet that...' in the world. Those fittings are not gonna wanna come apart, and it is better to remove/glass over them if you have the opportunity.
I might cap a seacock, but I would not recommend capping the through hull. If it fit a seacock it would not be properly supported in the hull without the seacock, and if it had been plumed to a ball valve, it is still better to be rid of it.
The stress imparted to a through hull if hit with even a relatively light object might be enough to break it off. :o
I have seen old bronze through hulls where the mushroom has broken off in a grounding (I think it was a grounding, something scraped along the side of the boat underwater....) and the owner said he was lucky to get it up in the hard before it sank.
___________________________________________________________
Larry,
That is really cool of you to offer that... ;D Good man.
(enjoy the grog)
Lqarry writes:
> Let me know. We could knock it out in a couple of days, and it doesn't have to be consecutive days.<
Larry, you're the best! :) Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it.
Oded
Quote from: s/v Faith on November 01, 2006, 08:48:48 PMI have seen old bronze through hulls where the mushroom has broken off in a grounding (I think it was a grounding, something scraped along the side of the boat underwater....) and the owner said he was lucky to get it up in the hard before it sank.
Very likely that bronze throughhull had been weakened by corrosion and de-zincified. Zinc provides the bulk of the strength in some marine bronzes and without it, there is just a fairly weak copper sponge left behind.
One key thing to do with bronze seacocks is to scrape the paint off of them and look at the color. If they have a pinkish tint or hue it is usually a sign of dezincification—and a good indication that they need to be replaced and that your ground bonding of the underwater metal on your boat may need improvement.
It can also be a sign that the marina or a boat near you in the marina has a ground fault in the electrical system and that electrolysis is occurring.
Hmm bronze does not have any zinc in it, you're thinking about brass?
Basically, brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, bronze is an alloy of copper and tin.
Here's the wikipedia link for brass: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass
And the wikipedia link for bronze: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze
While my statement about the de-zincification would apply to brass more than bronze, many alloys of bronze, which are primarily Copper and Tin, do have a slight amount of zinc in them as a deoxyidizer. Please see this webpage (http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article70.htm). While wikipedia is a good reference it often misses on technical materials.
The other place where zinc is often used is bimini fittings and deck fittings, like cleats, which are often made of Zamac, which is a high zinc content alloy, and should never be used in a marine setting.
Interesting, that is something I didn't know before.
I'm not a metallurgist so I'm not qualified to argue this point! ;D
Still I'm surprised, because I had been told that bronze for marine use contain no zinc whatsoever, but that it's often a high silicone mix.
I do note in the web page you referred to, that zinc is used to insure that the alloy doesn't separate during cooling, but that one can do without zinc by slow cooling or annealing.
It's still interesting though and I thank you for that web link.
You're welcome.. .btw, it's a high silicon (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A%20silicon&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) mix... Pamela Anderson is a High Silicone (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3A%20silicone%20&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) minx. :D
Excuse me, silicon! ;D Darn spell checker! :P
I got curious anyway and went searching for bronze alloys. I found copper.org (http://www.copper.org), which advocate copper and copper alloys, but also list just about all the alloys and some interesting reference to marine use.
It took me a little while, but I found this http://www.copper.org/resources/properties/microstructure/cu_tin.html which sure enough listed a small amount of zinc in the various common bronze alloys.
But there are also many bronze alloys that contain no zinc, such as aluminum bronzes.
So I guess it depends on just which alloy is used in thru-hull fittings.
An interesting thing I found, apparently, the presence of tin in bronze help to keep the zinc from leaching out.
Now I've learned way more than I wanted to, but it was still an interesting learning experience.
BTW, you did say in your post above that "Zinc provides the bulk of the strength in some marine bronzes and without it, there is just a fairly weak copper sponge left behind." That's what I was wondering about as tin is supposed to be the "bulk of the strength" in bronzes, otherwise it would be called "brass"? I'll grand you that there is some zinc, but doubt it's the "bulk" component?
Quote from: Dougcan on November 02, 2006, 02:34:04 PMBTW, you did say in your post above that "Zinc provides the bulk of the strength in some marine bronzes and without it, there is just a fairly weak copper sponge left behind." That's what I was wondering about as tin is supposed to be the "bulk of the strength" in bronzes, otherwise it would be called "brass"? I'll grand you that there is some zinc, but doubt it's the "bulk" component?
True, that statement probably applies more to brass than bronze. However, removing 2% of the material is probably going to have negative consequences to the strength of the through hull. The statement is a paraphrase from one of the books on marine maintenance, and if I get a chance, I'll post the exact wording and source. :D
I am adding seacocks to my c-26 and my current thruhulls are all stainless steel. Is there any problem coupling stainless steal thruhulls to brass seacocks? The threads all match up I just want to make sure there is no other compatiblity issues I should be worried about.
It would be best if you had the same metal. In time they may "weld" together. I do recommend a good anti-seze compound and bond well and keep good zinks.
With this, I do not see much of a problem. In 10 to 20 years you may want to replace the through hulls.
Don't do it. You shouldn't be using brass seacocks on a boat. Brass is extremely vulnerable to galvanic corrosion issues and will de-zincify, leaving behind a very weak copper "sponge". I wouldn't recommend using bronze with stainless steel for the opposite reason. IIRC, most marine-grade bronzes will cause galvanic corrosion with stainless steels underwater, and shouldn't be used IMHO.
Either get stainless steel seacocks, which will probably be fairly difficult to find, since stainless steel isn't a good choice of materials for seacocks, since the lack of oxygenated water will cause the stainless steel to suffer from crevice corrosion--or get Marelon seacocks. Better yet would be replacing the stainless steel through-hulls with bronze ones and using bronze seacocks on them--since putting a plastic seacock over a metal through hull will eventually lead to the seacock failing IIRC, primarily due to thermal expansion differences.
Finally, don't forget to use a mounting flange with the through hull. The through hull itself is NPS, and the seacock is threaded for NPT. Mounting the seacoock directly on the through hull is going to be rather risky, since the seacock won't have the threads from the through hull seat properly.
Take a look at Rod's site (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/seacock_primer) for his article on seacocks and pipe threads. There's a good photo about two screens down on why you shouldn't mix NPS threaded through-hulls with NPT threaded seacocks.
Well said Adrift!
Your useful and direct response to a frequently asked question is worth listing in a boat care FAQ section.
Oops I meant bronze seacocks and not brass.
thanks for all the info and the link. I already looked over his site and found alot of useful info. I have all the thread types matched and the seacocks will be flange mounted. The only part I was not sure of is if could use my Stainless Steal thruhulls or would I need to get bronze ones.
When I ripped my boat apart I found a time bomb under the head. The flush water pickup was a plastic fitting with a 3/4 tube fitted over the thruhull. No clamps and to top it off the hose was a bit loose. It was just a matter of time before that ended badly.
Glad to help Ron... get bronze through-hulls. :)
Marelon saacocks, sitting on fiberglass doublers, through bolted. Bronze through hulls. Had to shorten the through hull to match hull thicknessl
Straight threads on both parts.
Two 1 1/2 inchers mounted, one 1 inch one mounted, one to go when the galley are gets built.
Yup.. that's why through hulls are NPS rather than NPT... Couldn't really shorten them if they were NPT now could you?
Sure as the devil couldn't. :D
But the seacock is also NPS thread- straight all the way to the bottom. I trimmed the through hull so it buries leaving just about 1/16 before it bottoms out. I'd have to go get a flashlight, open the boat, and see what the brand is- can't remember right off. I'll look tomorrow.
Now the BALLCOCKS I've seen some use ARE NPT threaded- they are really intended for shore side plumbing.
Charlie-
I'd be interested in knowing what brand it is... If it is Marelon, it is probably a Forespar. From the Jamestown Distributor website:
QuoteMarelon is a formulation of glass-reinforced Dupont Zytel. It is optimized for marine use above and below the waterline with maximum U.V. inhibitors, and it will not support combustion. Additional marine benefits of the material are its extreme range of operating temperature and it's resistance to abrupt changes in temperature.
VALVE MAINTENANCE:
All our valves are non-corrosive, but like any moving part in a marine environment, they required regular inspection and lubrication. Do not fail to actuate the handle and lubricate the seals on a regular schedule (water pump grease or even mineral oil will lubricate seals).
Bottom and top connections are NPS (straight) thread. The use of products with NPS (straight) pipe thread is recommended only for low pressure applications, and then only with a generous application of pipe sealant or PTFE thread tape.
Yep- Just went out to check. Had to check cause I didn't purchase them- owner supplied, but they are Forespar
I recently had a Marelon seacock fail. :( The thing bound up and the handle broke off.
It never leaked. I lubed it with a silicon lube every time the boat came out of the water, about once every two years. I replaced it with another Marelon seacock.
Oded
I here this about 2 times a day in Fl. About 1/2 is the water intake to the motor thus motor overheating and no motor as well.
How are the boats not having problems?
Lubrication under way/in the water?
Best hose?
Best clamps?
How does a hose look worn out?
Replacement, When?
This slow death bothers me more than being run over.
An outboard and sealing the through hulls is one solution.
Is this happening on your boat Lynx or on others that are partially afloat? If it is your boat- "This Old Boat" by Casey has a great chapter on fixing leaks due to hose or thru-hulls.
I bet if you threw out that fire breathing engine things would get a lot better :D
Not on my boat, things are still less than 1 year old. I will want to replace them sometime and wanted some advice.
Lynx,
My last post was not correct, the engine is a crucial part of just about anyone's sailboat and how much you have is up to you. Please accept my apologies.
Casey recommends four ways to test a hose:
1. Squeeze it- the hose should not be too hard or soft.
2. Look at it- it should not be swollen or spongy looking
3. Flex it- the hose should not show cracks
4. Poke the ends -if it is brittle or flakes off- replace it.
As he points out- "the only thing that is keeping your old boat off the sea floor is 1/16 inch of flexible rubber"
In addition he states all thru hulls should have double hose clamps. I would keep a selection of cork stoppers that fit your thru hulls handy.
Fair winds my friend!
Newt
If you check your hoses from new you will be able to tell what is "normal" for your boat / the fitting......of course down side is that deterioration happens slowly - but in practice things do not always get checked as often as perhaps they could ;D, so..........
Double clip the hoses for sure.
Replacement? I would say 5 years +/- unless you were doing work which made it a good idea (easy!) to change earlier.
However, it seems your set up is different from those I have always encountered - IME the raw water intake can always be shut off BEFORE it reaches flexible hose, usually part of a strainer. But obviously installations vary.
If in doubt carry a spare hose - and Gaffa Type tape (the Bodgers freind!) for emergency repairs only! (You will probably find that many of these rescues are cause by Tape used as the permanent repair and / or owners who can only locate the hose and what it does once water is p#ssing in!.....their are always different ways of defining an "unexpected" event ::))
And a few bungs are always a comfort in the tool kit!
I would also check all your hull through fittings at the same time.
;D
Or just do what I did on Tehani- take out ALL the through hulls and glass over the holes. She has ZERO openings below the waterline.
I really feel much more comfortable about the boat like that. When we got her there were SEVEN holes down there, and only three of them had seacocks!!!!!!
Charlie,
What do you do for your intake on your head, your engine intake and your depth sounder/speedometer?
Just wondering. ???
Newt
The head is a porta potti or a bucket, depending on where we are, inshore or offshore.
The engine is an outboard in a well.
The depth sounder transducer is epoxied to the inside of the hull and fires through the glass.
The sink lifts out and dumps overboard
Ice chest gets bailed on a daily basis and the water dumped or put into a small cooler while it's still cold, for in cockpit drinks.
We don't need a speedometer- we can pretty much judge our speed inshore and offshore the GPS lets us know miles traveled. Most of the time actual speed through the water isn't all that important.
Quote from: CharlieJ on April 27, 2008, 06:38:20 PM
The head is a porta potti or a bucket, depending on where we are, inshore or offshore.
The engine is an outboard in a well.
The depth sounder transducer is epoxied to the inside of the hull and fires through the glass.
The sink lifts out and dumps overboard
Ice chest gets bailed on a daily basis and the water dumped or put into a small cooler while it's still cold, for in cockpit drinks.
We don't need a speedometer- we can pretty much judge our speed inshore and offshore the GPS lets us know miles traveled. Most of the time actual speed through the water isn't all that important.
KISS to the standard, you are my hero CharlyJ!!! :)
Gus
strange merging 3 threads from all the way back to '06. Although a good read and well worth it.
Quote from: CharlieJ on January 26, 2006, 10:53:10 AM
OR-
You can do like I've done on Tehani.
I removed ALL the thruhulls, glassed over the holes and painted. I now have NO openings in the boat below the water line. She had 7 (yeah- SEVEN) when I started. 4 of them with NO seacocks- just pipes glassed to the hull with hoses stuck on them. Gave me the shudders just looking at the things.
Of course you have to use a porta potti if you do that, but that hasn't proven to be much of a drawback considering:)
And no inboard diesel as well. But that's a whole 'nother topic.
Just out of curiosity, where do your cockpit drain(s) discharge? Aft through the transom?
Quote from: CharlieJ on April 27, 2008, 04:12:28 PM
;D
Or just do what I did on Tehani- take out ALL the through hulls and glass over the holes. She has ZERO openings below the waterline.
I really feel much more comfortable about the boat like that. When we got her there were SEVEN holes down there, and only three of them had seacocks!!!!!!
through the aft end of the cockpit, down into the motor well and out through the hull just above the water. They were originally a pair of wimpy 5/8 diameter hoses, with kinks in them. I rebuilt them into a pair of 1 5/8 fiberglass tubes, curved to fit where they needed to be.
So are the glassed in fiberglass tubes for through hulls any good? That's what I have on the Gulf rather than regular through hulls? Below the water line? IIRC, I think I have 8 through hulls like that and one for the knotmeter. It's finally nice enough to work on the boat and we're suppose to have winter pollen tomorrow. :(
Although I certainly see the sense in it (the latest "Lectronic Latitude has a story)
http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2008-05-05&dayid=109#Story4
but I am reticent to give up my raw water intake and sink drain, my two thru hulls
The sink is tied into the port cockpit drain, so to move them would be to lose it.
(http://downloads.c-2.com/photos/1202178215.jpg)
Leroy- the ones on Tehani were all in very bottom of the cockpit lockers- sticking straight up. I felt those were particularly vulnerable to being damaged by something in the lockers- say an extra anchor.. or even being stepped on when getting something out. They just scared the heck outta me because if that tube gets broken off, you then have a hole in the hull, with zero way of closing it. I got rid of them.
Our new deck drains ( which WERE two of those holes) now exit above the waterline. I"m still not really comfortable with them and next haul out ( soon) I intend to add seacocks to those.
Those fiberglassed tubes I built for Tehani are over 1/4 inch thick- hey - you saw them when you sailed with us. They DO suck up a bit of water when she's heeled hard and driving, but it stays in the cockpit, so no problems
FWIW,
Marelon seacocks can and do wear out (like everything). Faith's 1.5" head discharge seacock has developed a slight leak.
We noticed shortly after heading up the Escambia river that the bowl of the head would slowly fill when left unattended. Our current berth is much closer to the Gulf, so the water is more salty. I am sure this is helping. OUr normal SOP when using the head is to open the intake and discharge seacocks and close them each time the head is used.
We did the 'powder test' on and found no water was leaking on the sides of the bowl, so the intake valve was ruled out.
We experimented with various positions of the handle... slightly less then closed, or closed hard. Did not seem to make much of a difference.
Just someting to think about... like most things, there is no perfect sea cock.
Is there a wrench made to do this HD work? Everything I've found (two of them- $44 & $54) is marked not for old thru-hull removal. Anyone try to make one?
Jim
Making one is relatively easy if you have access to milling machine or a drill press and band saw. :) Just make it out of flat stock, 1/8-3/8" stock depending on the size of the through-hull should do the job for you. :)