Motor Lift ... or Wishful thinking

[BobW]

I'm not really sure I'm ready to put this out for comment, but if not now, when? ;D

I have been kicking around the idea of raising the motor out of the water ever since I moved the motor from an outboard bracket on the transom 3 years ago.  At first I thought of just wrestling the motor out of the well and stowing it in the lazarette.  There are a lot of drawbacks to that idea - particularly trying to accomplish that in choppy weather.

I thought of installing a "motor board" (for want of a better word) on the front edge of the lazarette hatch.  This is a simple idea, but still requires muscling the motor up manually.  And that front edge of the hatch just isn't strong enough to support the weight of the motor.



My next idea was to build a frame with channels to hold the motor mount.   The motor mount would slide in the channels and the frame would be tall enough for the motor to be raised out of the water (I need a lift of 20").  The existing location  (fore-aft) of the motor mount relative to the front edge of the hatch doesn't allow the motor to be pulled straight up.  The motor's cover extends too far forward and sits under the edge of the hatch.  I considered moving the mount aft enough for the motor to clear the hatch - and ran into another problem: the lower unit/cavitation plate would extend too far aft to clear the well opening, even if I enlarge the opening as far as possible.

I was discussing this with my dock neighbor, who suggested cutting a notch in the forward edge of the hatch just enough to clear the motor's profile.  We kicked this around and, at first, I was against this idea - maintaining the integrity of the one-design class, and all that.  But since the boat isn't true to the original design anyway, and I do not race one-design, cutting the notch won't destroy the design integrity.

So the plan is to reinforce the deck forward of the hatch, cut a notch, rebuild the motor well (part of the plan all along), and build the frame/channels.  My neighbor, who is a machinist by trade and could run a business out of his home shop, also suggest using a winch on top of the frame to raise and lower the motor.  He offered to fabricate a winch and the channels for me.  To support the top end of the frame and a winch we came up with the idea of a frame-work made of 1" stainless tubing and rail fittings.  There will be two support frames spaced about 15" apart.  I'm not sure how to better describe it, but this diagram may help.  Remember, this is a representation I cobbled together to illustrate the idea.  This side-view drawing is not to scale...



The stainless "rails" will be between 15" and 18" tall, while the the fore-aft measurement will be 24" or so(enough to span the hatch).   The new motor mount will be made of HDPE and fit inside the channels (represented in blue) made of stainless steel.  The orange circle represents the winch.  (Don't know why the drawing does not show all the lines... I need to look into that!  Hopefully, there is enough there to give you an idea of what I am planning.) 

Any thoughts or comments?

[s/v Faith]

Bob,

  I am sure there are many to cite reasons to try to talk you out of it... but I think it is a clever approach to the problem. 

  I would make sure that the traveler base is still going to be strong enough, and I see quite a bit of beefing up of the structure to support the slide rails but it seems like it would be do-able.

  I wonder if you turn the motor to one side or the other if the part of the powerhead that is under the edge of the hatch might be able to clear?  Or maybe this would allow you to cut a smaller opening?  Might even help with the cav plate clearance issue... ?  Speaking of the cav plate.  This will sound drastic, and maybe crazy but how much of it would you have to trim off to make it slide straight up?  _{(standing by for the pundits to chime in on that one).} 

  There is a guy on the Ariel site who does some amazing work named Ebb.  He re-engineered his Ariel's well to fit an electric tilt 4 stroke Yamaha.  It is a long thread, but there is much to be learned there, might be worth a look for some ideas.

[AdriftAtSea]

BobW-

Why re-invent the wheel?  Take a look at this website, and see if the product here might be able to do the job for you.  It looks an awful lot like what you need.  Since the base is spaced out a bit, it may give the outboard enough space to clear the existing hatch.

[BobW]

First of all, let me thank you two for not telling me I am out of my mind!  Thank you!

Second, I want to thank both of you for giving me a couple of good ideas to think about.

Craig, it never occurred to me to modify the cavitation plate.  I'm not sure what effect shortening that plate would have on performance, but I intend to find out.  Thanks for the thought.  As for turning the motor, that may help with the clearance of the motor head with the hatch, but I'm not sure the cavitation plate (even modified) would clear the opening of the well.  I don't mind lengthening the opening, but I don't want to widen it if I can help it.  I will look into how turning the motor prior to raising it might help.  Thanks.

Dan, thank you very much for that link.  I have not seen that site or that system before.  I think that particular product may have too much of an off-set to be used as is, but it gives me some ideas.  Transom mounted systems have infinite space (aft) to work with.  Working within the confines of the lazarette presents definite limitations.  Using tubing as rails could work for my application.  Using a block and tackle was something I thought of before my friend suggested a winch.  Perhaps we could incorporate both.  Thanks.

[Lynx]

Not knowing the space that you have, Will a standard long throw outboard raising and lowering bracket work if you widen the hatch?


Your system will work but why not mount the motor on the stern or the stern pulpit? It would appear to be the same amount of effort.

[AdriftAtSea]

Bob- Glad to help.  Do you have any photos of the top of the lazarette looking down??  Building something similar to what they make, with a shorter offset is probably not all that difficult given the fact that you have a machinist willing to help you.

If the rails were mounted at an slight angle to the motor, they might allow you to lift the motor out of the well without having to remove it or modify the lazarette opening.  You could use a pin to lock the outboard motor mounting plate in place when in use, and allow the plate to swing forward and aft a slight bit to allow the cavitation plate to clear the well during the raising/lowering process.


Lynx-

It would make more sense to mount it in the lazarette well, because, a transom mounted motor is far more likely to cavitate or come up out of the water due to the boat's motion. 

[CharlieJ]

Further- mounting in the laz well gives you MUCH easier access to the controls, And makes the motor much less lucratic to those light fingered folks.

On Tehani I have the same setup- it takes us about 30 minutes and a wrench to get the motor out, another 20- 30 minutes to put it back. So we leave it in the water always. I just got the anti fouling for the aluminum lower unit- can't use copper based- it'll cause a reaction- electrolysis.

And besides that- my wife will not allow anything back there to mess up Tehani's pretty rear end ;D ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

Yes, the fact that the motor isn't visible in the well makes it much less likely to be stolen. :D 

BobW-

Is your outboard capable of getting remote controls for the throttle and transmission?  I have a throttle/transmission lever for my outboard on my boat, and it makes handliing the boat under power much simpler.  It would be relatively easy to mount the remote control set in the cockpit with the outboard in the well.

[BobW]

Lynx -

When I got the boat 4+ years ago the outboard was on a transom mounted tilt-up mount.  It was awkward to operate the motor - step into the lazarette, lean over the transom to start it, same to reach the controls, and, because of the angle of the transom, the motor wouldn't tilt up.  So I had to go through some contortions to use the motor, and I was dragging it through the water.  I moved it to the motor well.  There just isn't enough room there for a tilt-up mount to work.

Dan -

Here's an old pic of the lazarette and the well taken from above.  The hatch opening measures about 31" x 20".  The well measures about 12' x 12".  It has since been cleaned up from what you see in the pic.



Here are a couple of pics of the motor in the well, primarily to show exactly why I plan to rebuild the well.  :-[





I have never looked into remote controls for either  motor (6 HP Evinrude, 8 HP Mecury Mariner).  While cockpit controls sound like a good idea, could they be hooked up to accommodate raising and lowering the motor as I plan to do?

Craig -

The work Ebb has done is incredible!  Lots of great ideas.  After seeing what he did with his outboard well, I wonder why I was in the least nervous about cutting a notch (probably on the order of 3" x 10") in the edge of the hatch!  Thanks for that link.  I've bookmarked it for future reference.

[AdriftAtSea]

BobW-

I think you should be able to connect the cockpit controls and still raise and lower the motor, since I can do that with mine.  Mine is mounted on a bucket that is attached to the port side of the main hull and hinged to swing up and down, by using a four-part block and tackle.  The motor also tilts up, to lift completely clear of the water.

I hope that helps. :D

Dan

[Lynx]

BobW - I did not realize that it was that tight. Interesting problem.

[BobW]

Dan,

It looks like throttle/transmission controls are available for my outboard.  I found this write up on an installation of Kicker Controls on a fishing boat.  Interesting the 8HP motor in the article looks just like my 6 HP.  However, I have not been able to find the OMC part (or the part number for the controls listed at the end of the article) on the internet.  I'll call the Johnson/Evinrude dealers to see if they've got it or can order it.  That would be a nice touch.

Craig

I've been thinking about your comments concerning the traveler and generally beefing up the structure.  I can reinforce the backside of cockpit bulkhead; and further reinforce the deck between the traveler and the hatch.  I can also use 3/4" ply for the new well instead of the 1/2" I had been planning to use.  I am also trying to find info re cavitation plates - and answers to the question: What if I shorten the plate?

[AdriftAtSea]

Yes, the remote control setup of the throttle/transmission makes using the OB for an auxilliary much simpler... and much safer.

[s/v Faith]

fwiw,

  I have operated sailboats with outboards in the well, with, and without remote controlls, and I have operated outboards hung off of the transom without controlls.

  I would not recommend remote controlls for a boat with an outboard in a well.

  One of the many advantages of the well mounted outboard is the ability to 'vector' the thrust when you are docking, or aground.  Even if your motor is a tight fit in the well, the couple degrees of steering you pick up makes a WORLD of difference.

  My boat had remote controls before she was mine.  I have some old pictures of the throttle mounted on the combing.. it is an affront.

  I delivered a boat with a Merc 9.9 in a well with remote controls.  The control mounted on a bracket that clamped onto the combing board and could be removed and placed below when not in use.  It was a good installation but the cable was always in the way (and the sharp bends may well have caused early failure).   Trying to hold the tiller, control the throttle / shifter, and steer the motor at the same time was very difficult to manage.  Add to that the complication of the set up and it was less then ideal.

  The ability to keep one hand on the tiller, and one on the outboard is one great advantage of the outboard in a well (one other being that the motor is significantly less prone to leave the water in a pitching situation).

  Where I like remote controlls, is for a transom hung motor.  It is very difficult on some boats (especially not designed for a transom hung motor) to operate the shifter and throttle.

  It can also be a hazard to the crew to lean over and down off of the transom to adjust the controls when a swing bracket is mounted to a transom.

  I operated an Alberg 30 with an outboard hung off of a transom on a bracket, and found it was very difficult to manage with one person.  You could adjust the motor, or steer the boat... but not both.

  I am sure remote controlls work out well on a multi, and might even be a safety consideration on a boat not designed for a stern hung motor... but not for an outboard in a well IMHO.

[AdriftAtSea]

While what you say might be true of most outboard motor wells, the well on BobW's boat seems to be awfully tight, and being in the locker means that the tiller is sticking close to straight up, which is a less than ideal position for steering the OB motor.  I think he'd be better off with remote throttle/shifter controls and far more comfortable.  It doesn't look like his outboard is going to go anywhere, given the tight mounting confines. 

I consider myself very fortunate, since the designer of my boat made it so that the tiller can steer the outboard as well as the rudder when under power.  The tiller has a collar around the base of it, and the collar has a hole in it.  To steer the outboard under power, you put a pin through the hole, and into the tiller stock.  Under sail, you remove the pin to steer just the rudder.

[CharlieJ]

From what I've discussed with Bob- his well is about like mine- you can't turn the motor in mine except to starboard ( boat turning to port). The tiller on the motor blocks  turning it to port ( boat turning to starboard), so you can only use the motor to aid in a turn to port. So we almost never adjust the angle of the motor, steering only by rudder.. Takes getting used to but  it's pretty much like an inboard in that respect. Biggest difference is that the prop wash doesn't go over the rudder since the motor is behind the rudder on Tehani.

As to the controls, all I can say is Yamaha!! ;D My Yamaha has the shifter , throttle and cut out button all mounted on the motor's tiller handle- that sticks out the front of the well and is easily reachable from the tiller position, yet it's totally out of the way. I think there are other motors with the same set up. Most sensible thing the builders have done in years.

[BobW]

I don't use the motor to steer.  It is a little awkward to steer with the tiller and shift gears, but I don't need to do that very much.  Adjusting the speed isn't too bad once you get used to the throttle being vertical.

As awkward as it is to operate the motor in the well, it sure beats hanging over the transom to do all those things.

I'll put the remote controls on the list, but I'll focus on the motor lift project first.

[AdriftAtSea]

Sounds like youre priorities are about right.. ;)

[BobW]

Some progress.  I've been discussing the project with my machinist buddy, and taking lots of measurements.  We're working on a system using stainless tubing for rails to lift the motor and incorporate it into what will be my stern rail (placed a bit forward of the transom).  We're pretty close to ordering materials (he can get stainless tubing through work at a very good price).  There's a guy at the marina with a box full of rail fittings at a pretty good price ($5 each). 

So, tonight's question is this: Are rail fittings made with shoulders inside or will tubing slide through freely?  Sure, I could wait until Saturday, but thought I'd ask anyway...  ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

Make sure the tubing is 316L or better.  Most bimini or pulpit fittings don't have a shoulder and should slide along the tubing.