Deck Hardware; Cleats, chocks, rollers, etc.

[CharlieJ]

That's a definite agenda item. I built that anchor platform and then we took off on our first month long cruise. We hadn't even had the sails up yet when we left.

But that is ON the list for this spring, as soon as I can. It's definitely something that should be on there. I'm also working on ideas for a chain stopper up there. I'm thinking something simple like a heavy stainless angle with a slot for the chain to sit in. That's so when you are hauling chain in, you can drop it into the slot to get a new grip- saves having to cleat it each time.

Right now I'm researching chain hooks for our snubber. See the rusty one in the first pic? We have 15 feet of line on it for when we anchor- we hook it to the chain so the boat isn't riding ON the chain, but on the nylon- stops jerking.


I'd like a stainless one, but we can't even find galvanized.  I suspect I''m gonna wind up making one the way I want it before it's over with.

[AdriftAtSea]

The best chain hook I've seen is a basically a 1/2" thick flat stainless steel plate about 5"x 4" with two holes and a slot cut in it.  The holes are for two shackles, which go to an anchor bridle, and the slot is cut to accept the chain. I don't know where my friend got it, or if they had a machine shop make it up for them. 

[CharlieJ]

Yep- I've seen one like that- That's basically what I have in mind. Just as soon as I find the stainless piece ;D

I'm visiting the metal scrap yards regularly, particularly the one that deals in stainless.

[Auspicious]

I have seen chain hooks like the one Dan and Charlie describe, I just can't remember where I saw them ...

Mine are Wichard hooks with nice little spring retainers to keep them from falling off the chain. It is a minor maintenance item to keep the retainers working (spray with WD-40 and then silicon once in a while) but not too bad, and it reminds me to inspect everything else.

Here's a picture just after I made them up and the lines were still all white:

[Fortis]

In my experience bales on bow rollers are for the benefit of reassuring sailors instead of keeping the rode running true.

I have never had one jump off the roller, despite some interesting conditions...

On the coast guard boat, which bounces around like buggery when it has something in tow, when the weather got too bad to tow the stricken vessel, we anchored, I did not fit the bale (Too busy half drowning and getting swept off the bow!)
2.5 hours of being the "meat" ina  tig of war between the stricken vessel and the seabed, with the boat often jumping straight up and falling back down...Never came close to coming off the roller.

Now, with the bale fitted on various boats I have seen rope snags get jammed in and tangled!


Sasha

[CharlieJ]

I've never had one come off while anchored either.

I HAVE had the rode jump off while hauling back as we were weighing anchor. And also have had it try to come off when we were aground and kedging at an angle, trying to spin the bow.

That's when I want the bail there.

[Auspicious]

The best chain hook I've seen is a basically a 1/2" thick flat stainless steel plate about 5"x 4" with two holes and a slot cut in it.  The holes are for two shackles, which go to an anchor bridle, and the slot is cut to accept the chain. I don't know where my friend got it, or if they had a machine shop make it up for them. 

I knew I'd seen it somewhere:

West Marine

sail fast, dave

[CharlieJ]

Kewl and darn.

Sized for down to 3/16 chain  >:( We use 1/4 G4

But I can have one made I betcha. I know a GOOD blacksmith shop.

[AdriftAtSea]

Thanks Dave...saves me from having to make one... ;)

[Tim]

My Ariel came with out any chocks. After reading as much as I could find on the Ariel site, I am even less sure. The originals I guess were skene chocks and there has been discussion about how what's readily available might easily chafe into the dock lines. Somewhere I saw some that looked to be a locking U bolt affair that had no sharp edges. Has anybody seen these? Or does anyone have recommendations?
Tim

[Bill NH]

I like having at least one locking chock on the bow, as that's where the sea anchor rode is deployed.  No worries about it jumping out of the chock and chafing on the stemhead fitting, forestay turnbuckle or whatever...

[s/v Faith]

Tim,

  The original chocks were marium(sp) (aluminum alloy) with skene chocks on the bow and open chocks aft.

  I still have one of the original skene chocks on the port side forward, and it works fine for the occasional dock line or if I am lazy and do not care to run the snubber from the attachment point I have at the waterline.... it really does not have any sharp edges as some of that I have seen.  I also went back with the open chocks aft.  Mine are stainless, they are 4" chocks (the bolts are 6" apart) and they have a good radius on entry and exit also.



Installed (this was before I switched to the bronze cleats)





  The locking chocks on an Ariel are IMHO more of a pain then they are worth (unless you plan to just leave them open).  When you are docking the idea of climbing over the lazy-rat to open them.  I think that the angle on the bow would make the open or the locking chocks less then ideal as the line would not run straight through them.

  My foredeck plan is not the norm, but works out well for us.  I have a large bit in the center of the deck for the anchor, and a pair of 10" cleats on either side of the bow that do not require chocks (line has a fairlead fore and aft, with the only chafe point being the toe rail which has a nice radius on our boats.  Set up like this, there is no advantage (that I can see anyway) to locking cleats forward.



  The weak point of such an arrangement is that the cleats are strongest with a pull off of their ends.  I made up for that with large cleats and large backing plates.



OBTW, I originally went with all stainless and switched to bronze.  I will probably switch out the remaining stainless when I get a 'round tuit'.

  ______________

On edit:  YEs, the bow might be a good place for a locking cleat, if you do not plan to have a bail on a roller (or no roller).  Also, the published requirement for a transit of the Panama Canal is to have locking cleats, but from what I have read they do not enforce it.

Link to deck hardware plan thread on the Ariel site in case you had not seen it.

I thought I had a better picture of the bow hardware arrangement but I can not seem to find it right now, I will look again later.

[AdriftAtSea]

I don't think they're  all that necessary.  A properly designed and installed skene-type bow chock would keep the line in place pretty well. Here is a photo of the ground tackle setup on my boat, as you can see, the line would have a lot of difficulty getting out of these chocks, but they're not locking chocks. If the line is under any tension at all, there's basically no way it can come out of these chocks.

[s/v Faith]

Dan,

  I remember when you posted that picture, I intended to ask you what your thinking was behind adding the chocks.

  I see that you would have a fair lead off of the chocks in any direction I would expect the lines to run.  If the chocks were on the rail you might prevent chafe as the line moved back and forth, but to my eye they do not seem to do that where they are (although they do cut the arc down, by moving the pivot point.... it could be that might serve to concentrate the chafe to a smaller part of the line.... ?  Don't know what a storm would do till it's over (although less of a concern for a trailered boat).

  I do like your addition of the stainless 'rub strake' over the toe rail, I thought of doing that, but decided to wait to see if chafe was an issue on the toe rail (it has not been so for me so far).

[Tim]

Thanks guys for the replys already! I've included a pic of the bow



to show what I have to work with here.
I intend to reinstall a hawes pipe and vents where the deckplates are, although may not be able to use the oval pipe that came with her as the hole may have been made too large.
Anyway, Craig after looking at your thread on the Ariel site again, I realize I may be best off doing as you did and put cleats in instead of chocks for dock lines. I then will add a  chock forward port for a second anchor. This will eliminate an overcrowded mess around the vent (s) when at dock.

I am still deliberating about venting also, so suggestions are welcomed. :)
Tim

[CharlieJ]

An interesting thing on the skenes. Tehani has a nice pair of bronze skenes on her stern- only problem is the are just alike- both left handed ( or right handed, whichever) So we don't use the one that's wrong, which can be problematic at times.

But I removed the original cleats back there and put a pair of bronze Herreshoffs in place, moving them aft at the same time. Originally they were in roughly the same position as the one's on Faith. I moved them outwards and aft, so there is no real NEED for a chock there. We do use the one chock when towing the dinghy and I'd LOVE to swap one with someone who has two rights ( or lefts) ;D

Here's a picture of a Meridian from the west coast- if you'll look closely you'll see that he has the exact same problem- both chocks are just alike, which makes one of them WRONG. That's the original site of the cleats and didn't work well- the edge of the laz cover got in the way.

[s/v Faith]

Tim,

  It looks like you have room to place the cleats near the rail as I did.  One thing to think about. especially if you plan to stow the anchor on the roller, is how you will maintain a fair lead for the rode back to some securing point.  That is why I have the bit in the middle of the foredeck... (in addition to wanting multiple pie down points for storm gear).  The chain lays within the sides of the channel leading to the roller when the anchor is stowed, or when on the hook (although there is usually no strain then as I use the snubber).  Rope rode would (of course) make it all the more important to ensure that the rode could not contact the (relatively) sharp edges of the roller channel.... although you could reasonably achieve that with a snubber that lead from one (or both) of your bow cleats.

  OBTW, some who commented on the 10" cleats I chose said they were overkill for a small boat.  After some experience with them I could not disagree more.  I have 3 sets of the same 10" bronze hershoff cleats... foreward, midships, and aft.  I really like being able to take multiple lines to any of them.

  James Baldwin agreed with the sizing, when I mentioned some of the people's comments he said that "cleats can not be too big".


_______________________________________

On edit, as Charlie was posting while I was typing.

  Yes, good point.  I once saw a pair that were installed on the bow with the sides swapped  :P  double the chaff for the same price.   ;) ;)

  I would like to see a picture of the stern cleats on Tehani, it would be nice to eliminate the chocks aft too. 

  I have Faith's old starboard bow chock.... but I think the Marium would clash with your bronze....

[CharlieJ]

I agree TOTALLY. MOST cleats on production boats are woefully undersized. I've not owned a boat yet that I didn't upgrade the cleat sizes AT LEAST 2 inches, and sometimes more. If you can't EASILY put two of the largest lines you use on the cleat, it AIN'T big enough. I've posted this picture here before, but here's the bow of Tehani- those are 10 inch  ( we think- they MAY be 12s)  bronze Herreshoffs up there. The stern cleats are now 8  ( or maybe 10s) inchers, mainly because that's what I took off the bow.

[Tim]

I couldn't agree more with you about oversizing cleats. I did that on my Potter when I added midship cleats, it made them 10 times more useful.

If you can post a pic of your bow, I think I understand about your placement.

[CharlieJ]

best picture I have at the moment on the stern It was taken for something else but you can see the cleats ( and chocks) in the background.

I have to go back to the boat tomorrow to fit some wood work so I''ll get a pic of the actual cleats then