Lessons learned - a rescue story

[dnice]

I ran across this interesting rescue story today.

it was extremely well documented and detailed.  and it also includes a detailed analysis of what went wrong.

I know there have been a few discussions here lately about some of these topics, like the value of liferafts and epirb's, and the nature of requiring a rescue in itself...

My opinion...
I am pretty sure we would all agree that the boat itself was never in danger and did not need rescuing. And (as noted in the article) the problems were entirely preventable with a good shakedown and IMO a skipper that knows his boat a little better.
but the added question of how to deal with a sick crewmember is interesting... without medical knowledge how can you judge whether to turn back, several days from port, or to call for a medical evacuation? If its an obvious injury or something it would be easy to asses, but he had a serious problem that was not recognizable to his crewmates.

of course, that brings to my mind, that there is no use in spending $500 on a first aid kit, if you don't have the medical skills to match its value. If you have no medical knowledge at all, then you probably only need some bandaids and aspirin in your kit :) But if you are an EMT, a serious $$$ kit would make sense.

I think the sick guy, was lucky the coast guard responded the way they did, but this sure sheds some light on the amount of resources that go into even a non-emergency call. the guys calls were just to ask questions, report condition/position. and get advice, the CG made their own decisions to dispatch a chopper, a cutter and a C-130!

Just to add; I did not see the point in the CG requesting the liferaft be deployed... other than maybe to make the boats crew more comfortable during the rescue.

[AdriftAtSea]

I think the real reason they had them deploy the liferaft was to keep the four people together during the rescue attempt.  Four individuals would have drifted apart and made recovery more difficult IMHO. 

IMHO, the boat was in danger, since it had a hatch that could not be dogged shut any longer.  If the boat had been knocked down, the hatch could have allowed enough water in to flood the cabin and sink the boat. Also, without working emergency steering, trying to do much with the boat in heavy seas would have been difficult unless they had a drogue or sea anchor aboard—neither of which was mentioned.

As for seasickness, they should have had some compazine suppositories or something similar that doesn't require being able to swallow and keeping it down to work.  Antacids are also a very good thing to use in cases of severe nausea, since surpressing the stomach acid helps reduce nausea and also would have made the vomiting far less damaging to the esophagus.  Having too much stomach acid is one cause of nausea that is usually treatable, and can prevent more serious problems from occurring.

As for the saltwater contamination of their primary water supply, this is one reason I put the deck fill of my water tank on a slanted surface.  Salt water can not pool or sit over the deck fill, so it is far less likely to take on salt water.

A wilderness first responder-type course would be a good idea for anyone headed out. 

[Navyvet]

Why don't people do a few runs and build up before just jumping in to something. Just because you can make a run to Catalina doesn't mean you can do Hawaii and because you did something at 20 doesn't mean do it at above 20 lol :-X. We all where invincible once we all know we aren't anymore. Just because you got lucky 1 time doesn't mean you will get lucky again. So this guys boat leaked like a sieve ::) first issue that should have been fixed before this and found if he would have done some shake downs.  :-[His friend got seasick so he new there was a chance he would have it happen again. They left with a large storm brewing ??? all of this just screams to me "NOT SMART". I know ever sport has it's "special ;)" members but come on and things can go bad for everyone but things like your boat leaking water this is a no brainier :o. And I hate to bring this up but a 19year old boy and a 18year old girl together on the boat going to Hawaii this guy is stupid 8). This to me is like a hunter shooting and killing his friend "He was in all orange I thought it was one of those smart deers(or for ex-vp quail) that dresses like a hunter... Where the beer?"

[Pablo]

That was a very interesting story.  I do find it odd that they were planning on a crossing with a Catalina and not a boat better suited to off shore use, that puts up many flags. 

I agree 100% with dnice on the med kit.  It doesn't matter what's inside if you don't know how to use it. 

[mrb]

IMHO  the only thing they did wrong was not turning back as soon as it was seen that one crew member was not responding to sea sickness med.  That should have been some time Monday morn.
Now many people get sick the first few days out and then are fine.  This may have been Jacks previous experience.  Don't know though.

As far as choice of boat a Catalina 36 should be able to do that trip with no question.

Steering problem,  Edison is a big name in boating and am sure many have been used in many ocean passages, however cast aluminum??  Maybe those big names aren't always so good after all.

An aluminum emergency tiller may not be the best choose but most of us go with what is thought to be good.

The monitor and other sheave problems they appeared to be able to make good on the spot fixes.  With four people sharing helm watches I would think they were prudent.  Down to three still prudent, again many have done it with one person.

I doubt that the leaking was a problem and without knowing more I would hazard to say a lot of the initial wetness below was from clothing.  Also wounder if they were keeping hatch boards in place. With one sick below and three topside I would bet that there was a lot of going below to check on sick and to use head.  Opening hatch and pulling boards can get tire-some and I can see boards off more and more.  The reference to problem using head indicates to me water was comming in on clothing.

As far as knowledge goes, 20 years exp. and all 4 having attended sailing schools should answere for it's self.

A 18 year old girl and 19 year old boy with their fathers along, come on Navyvet, were not that old.  Actually My wife and I have had our son and his girlfriend (our friend too) spend time on our 21ft'r together.  Not much can go on on a 21ft boat.

All told I have a feeling those folks would have made it to Hawaii fine if one had not been sick.   The emergency tiller would have been fine with a human hand on it.  A lashed rudder and tow puts more strain on rudder and tiller than normal.  Or would have two spares been better.  Got to keep an eye on those pesky o rings. They did have an additional 60 gal. of water, gotta give credit for that.

ENOUGH
Fair winds and temps.
mrb

[dnice]

Yes the boat was in danger... but only the danger of being uncomfortable and difficult. It was never in any danger of sinking, and with a working emergency tiller, never in any danger of becoming adrift. This was not storm conditions, and even if a storm was developing, it was not a "survival" situation. At least, not for anybody accept the sick guy.

On the other hand. Abandoning the ship, caused the boat to become adrift for an entire week, and potentially forever. This seems to be more of a danger to others than the danger it was to themselves to begin with.

As far as the boat choice... I really don't see that as an issue (my opinion), any boat can make it across any ocean. But the skipper should have understood his boat better (and therefore worked out the major kinks) before setting out on such a long passage.

its easy to see what should have been done before they set out, but that is not the issue. They did a very good job of analyzing that in the article.

but my question is, what would have been the best choice given that particular situation...could they have avoided a rescue situation? or maybe even, should they have initiated a rescue earlier at the sign of a medical situation??

and also, what choice would you make when dealing with a sick crewmember with an unknown condition several days from port (call or head in?)

[Navyvet]

To me I would have turned around on the second day he was still sea sick with the meds in him. First day body may not be use to it second day time to head back. and I'm sorry about the 18/19 year old, but comments about (he said "This was the finest sailing I've ever experienced and some of the scenes were just beautiful!" Aimee's comment was "It's too bad the adults were worried. Jeff and I were having a great time!") is what made me think that if you can do it in the Navy on a ship you can find a place/time on a 36 footer too... Just making a observation nothing more and trying to make some people laugh. :)

[mrb]

I am with NavyVet 2nd day out and no improvement in med. con. turn back, after all health of friend is more important than trip which can be taken at a later time.

I have always gone with the oppinion that sailing should never be on a time schedule that dictates putting people or boat in danger.

Thanks for the laugh NV, I figured as much 8)
and thanks to dnice for the link to story, made for a good eve of arm chair adventuring.

Had fair winds and temp. in Ar. today
mrb 

[chris2998]

that was good story. I do think the boat should have been gone through better and they should have made probally alot more test runs to work the bugs out

[newt]

I read this story a few years back, and along with the story about the Flicka who came back to the Florida panhandle after a few days...
I feel they can both be condensed into one morality tale...ie what factor is most important in determining seaworthiness? It is the CREW. Compare that story with two guys who had just lived for one month in an Ice cooler on the ocean. (it came out this week)
When I leave for Hawaii (and I someday will) I will have extensive bluewater experience, as will my boat and I will probably go alone or with a close friend. I think an experienced sailor would never ask a boat to do something it wasn't designed to do, and the Pacific does not care about your hopes and dreams and illusions.

Blue water boat + Blue water training(for all crew)= a good chance of success

With that said, I know every time I leave the dock that I am in a hostile environment and the ocean can kill me. I am only safe as I consciously use the principles and knowledge of sailors that have come before me.  These guys broke so many rules in preparation and execution of their voyage that I think they were very lucky. I strongly feel that part of the sickness was caused by the seakindness (of lack thereof) of the Catalina hull. Choosing a boat is part of the preparation, as well as dealing with seasickness.

Now some people may feel that this post is undully hard, but we are talking about the North Pacific here. The BVI in February is for beginners, the North Pacific is not. Those that follow Practical Sailor will remember that even a veteran trans pac sailor had to get rescued from the Pacific this year. Man it is not a play area! I am humbled when I am on that ocean!

Now I will get off my soapbox. ::)

[AdriftAtSea]

I think preparation of the captain and crew is often overlooked, and often the weakest link.  Ronnie Simpson and Heather Neill are both good examples of that.  In many cases, like Ronnie's, they abandon ship without even trying to make emergency repairs of any sort.  Then there are sailors like Maude Fontenoy, Donna Lange, Webb Chiles, who have encountered problems at sea, yet find the resources and have the ability to effect repairs to continue their voyage in spite of the problems.

During Maude Fontenoy's recent solo circumnavigation, her boat was dismasted about 200 NM from her final destination.  She called her shore crew and told them not to bother sending help as she had jury-rigged a setup and would see them in a few days.

I think knowing the systems on your boat as intimately as possible is a big factor in whether you succeed.  I think that the captain and crew and how well prepared they are is more important than what boat you choose in many ways. 

For instance, look at Webb Chiles and his near-circumnavigation in two different 18' Drascombe Luggers.  I doubt any here would consider a Drascombe Lugger, which is an 18' open daysailer, a proper boat for a circumnavigation, but Webb was able to sail one for about 7/8s of a circumnavigation.

I think where the boat selection becomes very important is when the captain/crew are less than fully prepared.  Look at Tania Aebi and her Contessa 26.  There were many points in her book, Maiden Voyage, where it was clear that the inherent seaworthiness of the Folkboat-derived Contessa 26 was in great measure a reason for her succeeding.  I don't think she would have survived in a less-seaworthy design, even though Webb was able to do so.

[dnice]

I think preparation of the captain and crew is often overlooked, and often the weakest link.  Ronnie Simpson and Heather Neill are both good examples of that.  In many cases, like Ronnie's, they abandon ship without even trying to make emergency repairs of any sort.  Then there are sailors like Maude Fontenoy, Donna Lange, Webb Chiles, who have encountered problems at sea, yet find the resources and have the ability to effect repairs to continue their voyage in spite of the problems.

During Maude Fontenoy's recent solo circumnavigation, her boat was dismasted about 200 NM from her final destination.  She called her shore crew and told them not to bother sending help as she had jury-rigged a setup and would see them in a few days.

I think knowing the systems on your boat as intimately as possible is a big factor in whether you succeed.  I think that the captain and crew and how well prepared they are is more important than what boat you choose in many ways. 

For instance, look at Webb Chiles and his near-circumnavigation in two different 18' Drascombe Luggers.  I doubt any here would consider a Drascombe Lugger, which is an 18' open daysailer, a proper boat for a circumnavigation, but Webb was able to sail one for about 7/8s of a circumnavigation.

I think where the boat selection becomes very important is when the captain/crew are less than fully prepared.  Look at Tania Aebi and her Contessa 26.  There were many points in her book, Maiden Voyage, where it was clear that the inherent seaworthiness of the Folkboat-derived Contessa 26 was in great measure a reason for her succeeding.  I don't think she would have survived in a less-seaworthy design, even though Webb was able to do so.

I agree, I always say that what makes a person a good sailor/cruiser is their ability to improvise and adapt to any given situation.
Even more notable, I think what prepared Webb Chiles for his open boat sailing, was all the practice he got bailing water out of his Ericson 35 in the southern ocean. His hull was cracked and it eventually got so bad he was bailing something like 20 hours a day for many days (weeks?). And to top it off, during the worst of his bailing he was experiencing daily gale force storms and atleast one full fledged hurricane force storm! I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the cruisers out there today would have required a rescue in that situation. I pictured him coming into port looking a lot like Capt. Jack Sparrow standing on the spreaders and stepping off onto the dock :)

With all that said, I believe Tania Aebi would have made it in any boat. She was very resourceful, smart, and dedicated, that is why she was successful. I know the contessa was quite forgiving, but she proved (to me) that she was indeed a good sailor despite her lack of experience. Obviously being better prepared and more experienced would have made everything much easier on her, but it did not stop her, and it did not cause her to fail. I think she is one of the best examples of a good sailor.

Yves Gelinas is also a good one to note, because when he was dismasted, he actually set off his radio beacon and tried to get help, but nobody came to his rescue. (not sure if anybody attempted to or not) He had to jury rig the mast and sail to safety while contending with the conditions of the southern ocean. If he had been relying on that radio beacon to get him out of trouble, he would not have made it. Instead it was just used as a precaution or an aid to his safety, not as a complete safety net in itself.

I think this type of resourcefulness and determination is a personality characteristic, not something you learn. If you are not that type of person, then you should spend a lot more time and money on gear and gadgets and training and experience, because you might need all the help you can get. But for those of us who are naturally adventuresome and driven, then there is nothing wrong with just getting out there and making the best out of what you have, all the while adapting and making changes while you learn and grow. In either case, being properly prepared is imperative, but the extent of what that means is entirely relative to the individual.

[AdriftAtSea]

I agree, I always say that what makes a person a good sailor/cruiser is their ability to improvise and adapt to any given situation.
Even more notable, I think what prepared Webb Chiles for his open boat sailing, was all the practice he got bailing water out of his Ericson 35 in the southern ocean. His hull was cracked and it eventually got so bad he was bailing something like 20 hours a day for many days (weeks?). And to top it off, during the worst of his bailing he was experiencing daily gale force storms and atleast one full fledged hurricane force storm! I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the cruisers out there today would have required a rescue in that situation. I pictured him coming into port looking a lot like Capt. Jack Sparrow standing on the spreaders and stepping off onto the dock :)

That would have been Egregious... I've had the good fortune to meet Webb while he was living in the Boston area.  He's a very good egg...

With all that said, I believe Tania Aebi would have made it in any boat. She was very resourceful, smart, and dedicated, that is why she was successful. I know the contessa was quite forgiving, but she proved (to me) that she was indeed a good sailor despite her lack of experience. Obviously being better prepared and more experienced would have made everything much easier on her, but it did not stop her, and it did not cause her to fail. I think she is one of the best examples of a good sailor.

I don't know about this.  A lot of her early survival I would put down to a combination of luck and having assistance from other sailors and a very solid boat.

Yves Gelinas is also a good one to note, because when he was dismasted, he actually set off his radio beacon and tried to get help, but nobody came to his rescue. (not sure if anybody attempted to or not) He had to jury rig the mast and sail to safety while contending with the conditions of the southern ocean. If he had been relying on that radio beacon to get him out of trouble, he would not have made it. Instead it was just used as a precaution or an aid to his safety, not as a complete safety net in itself.

Very true...I think that self-reliance is really key.

I think this type of resourcefulness and determination is a personality characteristic, not something you learn. If you are not that type of person, then you should spend a lot more time and money on gear and gadgets and training and experience, because you might need all the help you can get. But for those of us who are naturally adventuresome and driven, then there is nothing wrong with just getting out there and making the best out of what you have, all the while adapting and making changes while you learn and grow. In either case, being properly prepared is imperative, but the extent of what that means is entirely relative to the individual.

Unfortunately, some people think that technology alone can save them from themselves.  They probably don't think about what risk they're putting other people into by their own lack of resourcefulness and preparation.

[newt]

I am reminded of a saying from my red-neck past. "If you are prepared for bear, then squirrel won't be a problem" Prepare for the worst, and if the wind is on your back and you log 150km days, it will be wonderful. ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

If you're prepared for bear and shoot a squirrel, good luck finding enough of it to eat. :)

[newt]

Better than have it jump up and bite me when it has rabies (the squirrel) I guess this is where the analogy breaks down. :o