Any Advices on dealing with Yacht Brokers??

[chris2998]

I just sent a PM to someone and thought maybe I'll start a thread on this.
I am hoping to buy a boat in about 8 months ruffly maybe sooner maybe later, been looking like crazy on yachtworld and even went and seen one boat in my area that was being sold by the owner.

Should someone who is looking to buy a boat should they be totally upfront with the Broker and say hey I'm looking for this certain type of boat and I plan to buy in about 8-10 months possibly sooner if I come across the boat I like? or should you just say what you're looking for and act like you are ready to buy tomorrow?

What are yalls experiences dealing with brokers? or even buying from owners?

I just thought this would be a great thread to start for the first time boat buyer like myself because i really haven't dealt with them


Thanks a bunch,
Chris

[dnice]

Some of the brokers I have talked to were very helpful and willing to show me anything they had. But I have talked to a few who were obviously assuming I was a complete idiot with money and they thought they could "direct me to a more appropriate boat".

When I find that somebody is not going to be helpful or respectful, I tell them nevermind, I'll find somebody else to deal with. I don't care what boat they have, its not worth my time to deal with those guys. There will always be other boats for sale. And I wouldn't want a single penny of mine to end up in their pocket.

That broker was probably lying to you, the market is poor right now, and he was just trying to cause you to make a hasty decision. Very much like a crappy used car dealer. You either have to be very direct and tell them exactly what you want and settle for nothing less, or just don't deal with them.

I think the majority of brokers will be helpful though, so don't let a few a-holes keep you from trying.
There is nothing wrong with looking at boats a year before you're ready to buy, any good broker will respect that, and treat you well in the hopes of you coming back to them or referring friends to them in the future.

[chris2998]

Thanks dude yeah I may try the same broker company but ask for a different person to deal with but dam I really wanted to see that 28ft CD oh well guess I better go somewhere else. Hey do you know any brokers over there by MS? around Gulfport and all?? and you're right the market is poop right now he was bsing me for sure

Thanks
Chris

[dnice]

I have only spoke with private owners in Gulfport, just from walking the dock.
Actually, I found that walking the docks is the best way to see boats. There are a lot of them for sale that never get listed anywhere and they work by word of mouth. So just getting to a marina and making conversation with people will usually return some good prospects.

I am really hoping to do a lot more serious looking this spring/summer since I'll be down here for a few extra months. But I'm gonna shift my search to the trailer sailor market. Even then, I still like to look at every boat I can, and whenever I find one close enough I try to go take a look, even if its way out of my price range or not at all what I think I want. I just find that the more I talk to people the better, since I'm such a noob getting out there is much better than reading.

There are a lot more brokers in your area and then further east in Mobile and FL, but not much around here. I have talked a few times with people from Mid South Sailing in Mobile and they were always helpful and willing to answer any questions I had. The other brokers I have talked to were in northern OH and MI and I've had mixed impressions from them all.

I do think it would be worth trying to see that CD again, Just try to ignore the broker and do your own thing. He's a tool.

[chris2998]

yeah I'm gonna give it another shot and see if I can if not screw him it's his loss.
Theres a marina near me that I'm gonna check out which I hope the marina owners don't get mad at me for walking there docks. Which heck I may aproach them and ask and even introdeuce myself heck it won't hurt and they may know of some boats they can recommend.

Thanks,
Chris

[s/v Faith]

One fact in dealing with a broker, you are going to pay more for the boat.  Even a bad broker, that does not assist you in any way will collect the commission on a boat they have listed.  


IMHO,
 The broker will argue that some owners overprice their boats... and they are right.  Those owners are not going to suddenly lower their prices when they list with a broker.

 They will also tell you that the seller will pay the commission.... who is bringing the checkbook to the table?

Walking docks, and talking to folks online... much better way to do business.  This is especially true with SailFar size boats.

[chris2998]

Thanks s/v Faith if the weather is good next weekend I'll try walking the docks and checking the boats out for myself. I never really gave it any thought that yeah the boat would be maybe more going with a broker or owner. Thanks this is all part of learning about boats not just the boat but buying it as well.

Thanks,
Chris

[mrb]

Chris

When walking docks first see if you can see a boat with a for sail sign, then you can always tell dock master you would like to take a look at that boat and any other that may be for sale.  Some docks are open to one and all others are not.  Another good practice is to ask the harbor master or dock master if they know of any boats for sale.  Some times they know of ones that are not posted with signs or can steer you to some good buys.

As far as brokers go reamember that they look at you as a way to make some money.  If you have something in mind let them know what you want.  One thing to watch out for is if you make a low offer and they contact the seller and the seller agrees they are just as apt to call their buddy and sell it to him before getting back to you.  Personal experience.  AND IT IS A BUYERS MARKET. Always will be in the used boat market.  Old adage,  two happiest days in a boat owners life, the day he buys his dream boat and the day he sells it.  Not to says there are not a whole lot of happy days in between.  Just that a lot of people are moving up or down and their old boat is in the way of the newer one.

Happy searching

[CharlieJ]

One fact in dealing with a broker, you are going to pay more for the boat.  

Not necessarily true, When I sold my trimaran, the broker worked with both me and the buyer to negotiate a price. Once the price was agreed upon, the broker took his commission from that selling price. It was not quite what we started out asking, but as a part of the negotiations I removed a huge amount of gear from the boat. I'm still using some of that gear today. The broker got nothing from that.

A GOOD broker can be well worth the money, in particular on a larger boat.

[chris2998]

Thanks well the broker that I did find near me really doesn't have any boats I'm interested in so am trying to see if there are any other brokers around me. I did find one well there more into powerboats it seems but just gonna keep searching now. I'm deffinatly gonna pass by next weekend at this one marina and probally go and talk to the harbor master and see if he can tell me of any boats for sale at the marina. I'm pretty much set on I'm gonna have to make a trip to Maryland or Florida or wherever to find the boat I want this summer but it would be nice to get lucky and find something close.

Chris

[Lynx]

Take a gun and shoot them in the back. All they deserve.

It is very rare to find and honest one.

[Sandy]

Chris,

I've only had to deal with a broker once. I wouldn't call it a "bad" experience because I ended up getting a great deal on a great boat.  I would call it frustrating though.  When I accused the broker of not really showing much interest in making sure the transaction went smoothly he flat out told me "....hey man, this is only a  $10,000 deal and my commission won't be squat".  Man talk about customer care.  Like I said, I was very happy with the deal,  and I made it a point to be a thorn in this dudes butt.  By the time he had gotten rid of me he had earned his commission!

Unfortunately money talks.  Don't tell these guys your not ready to buy until after they show you the boats. Do lots of Internet investigation, know what your looking for, know what you want to spend( don't worry about offending someone with a low offer, your not out to make friends, your out to buy a boat), and find a good surveyor you can trust( definitely not the one the broker recommends)

Good luck and have fun!!

-Sandy

[Oldrig]

Hey Chris,

This is a really good time to be buying a boat--and a really crappy time to be selling one.

That means that you are the one in the driver's seat. If a broker feeds you a line of poop, ask him how many boats he sold recently. Point out that your interest is in buying a boat, and that the size of his commission doesn't really matter to you.

Under normal circumstances, such talk might be out of line. But not right now.

I have to say that I bought my boat through a broker, and it was an entirely favorable experience. It was a small boat, so he did not expect much of a commission.  As a result, he basically took me to the boat, said, "look it over," and went on to other matters. When I said I was interested, he made it easy for me to get the boat surveyed (and sea-trialed), and he later arranged a delivery crew to bring it from Connecticut to Massachusetts.

So, even though this particular broker was not really putting himself out for  me, he was helpful on what he knew would be a small-commission job. That's what you need, especially with something like a CD28.

BTW, if nobody else has suggested that, be sure to visit the Cape Dory Sailboat Owners Association website (www.capedory.org). They have a "for sale" section. I'm sure somebody on that board is planning to trade up or down from a 28. And, if you find a boat that you're interested in, you can post your questions on the board. One of the former owners might be on it.

Good luck.

--Joe

[AdriftAtSea]

Chris—

I'd also recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread I started.

[newt]

I have negotiated a great deal more than once only to have the broker sell it to his buddy. Any way anybody has a way of getting around this problem with brokers? It seem like I Have to trust someone, but the broker (even when he says he is working for me) seems to be the one who has an alternative motive.

[David_Old_Jersey]

I have negotiated a great deal more than once only to have the broker sell it to his buddy. Any way anybody has a way of getting around this problem with brokers? It seem like I Have to trust someone, but the broker (even when he says he is working for me) seems to be the one who has an alternative motive.

I lost out on a nice little boat a few years ago - to be honest it was already at an attractive price and was very tidy, but of course I put in a lower offer  ;D It was one of those boats that I would have been very happy with at the right price for a couple of years - although I was not "in love" with her  :D so I was quite happy to play it cool when buying, especially as I knew the boat had been for sale for a good while (Jersey is a small place  :P).

Next thing I heard (Jersey is a small place  :P) was that the boat had been sold and gone to England. No refusal or Counter offer. Indeed no contact with broker at all  >:(

I can't prove it - but I strongly suspect that the broker did a deal with a mate on that boat and owner never even heard my offer. My reasoning is that over in the UK this boat was a lot more attractive than here (It was 20 foot motorsailer  ;D - and a bit slow under both for going off the island) - even if the new Owner had paid the 17 1/2% VAT for importing (that is avoidable with the right (wrong?!) paperwork - especially on an older boat).

I heard at Xmas that the Broker is now (back?) to selling second hand cars (Jersey is a small place  :P).

[nowell]

I personally did it with the owner. Walking the marina's, and internet searches (Craigs list) is exactly how I found mine. I don't think the ad was up for more than a day  ;D

With most of our "typical" SailFar boats, it might be better off. Also keep in mind, some of the same tactics still hold true with the current economy and private sellers. Yes, its a bit more intimate with a real person, but at the same time, be honest with yourself. They are selling, you are buying. Its your money.

Right now alot of people would love to be out of their upkeep and slip fees. Especially if said people have family, mortgage, etc. Keep on YachtWorld, and CraigsList often. I still check every day just to look and see what comes up. Just the other day I found a beautiful WestSail 28 here in Houston that could definately be had for as low as 20k. Not bad for a boat that only had about 60 made.

There are lots of gems out there, just need to do some digging. Now more than usual with the market being flooded with sellers.

[chris2998]

thanks guys

I'm actually about to leave my house in a couple minutes here to go look at a CD 28ft. From the pictures it will need some work but thats any boat right? but I think it will need quite a bit of work but still gonna go take a look at it. I was hoping for something around 31ft but figured it's only about 10 miles from me why not go check it out and learn a little more about looking at boat and see what it's like dealing with a broker. Like someone else said use a broker there just a tool is all so thats that. I'll tell you more when I get back from looking at it.

Chris

[nowell]

Let us know how it goes, and snap some pics  ;D

[chris2998]

Well I was not impressed at all it looked like it was about to sink matter affact when I walked up to it I was like ummm no thank you and started to walk away.
It was ****

I told the broker what I was looking for and that I didn't really want to go over 30 gran he showed me some boats he had and really he just didn't have any boats worth a darn, am I shooting myself in the foot by staying around 30 gran I mean I could go more like maybe 40 but I'd really be stretching it. I looked at a 41 Rhodes full keel sloop. I must say very nice boat and roomy but to long for me after that a cd 27 again nice little boat with a little work but to small to live aboard but really a nice little boat, it did have about 10 inches of water in the bilge maybe a little less I should have brought a flashlight I'm not sure if that is normal or what. I didn't really go through any of these boats alot because they just didn't really catch my eye you know? heck the w32 I looked at a few weeks back was nicer then these boats and I thought it needed alot of work boy was I wrong. I do have to say it is nice going aboard these boats and learning about them.

I really did like that rhodes 41 but I know there is no way I could do all the upkeep of that boat. I looked at a s-2 about 30ft sloop fin keel I must say very nice boat for on the lake but wouldn't want to go beyond that and the head smelled like POOP
I did see a 30 or 31ft cape dory I think it was very nice boat I may go back to that marina and talk to the harbor master and see if I can get in touch with the owner and if they would let me go aboard it, it was really a nice looking boat and would save me maybe a little biut of time then to drive way into FL to see this other 30ft CD.

So yeah thats about it for my boat shopping. I am deffinatly going to have to go to FL or TX to look at other boats but it is ok I learned alot today I learnd these boats weren't for me.

Chris

PS can you tell me what was the headroom on a 27cd?? I know my head hit it but am currious