Am I crazy?

[Cpt2Be]

My wife and I are noobs in the noobiest way. We have been on boats but know nothing about running our own boat. We have a limited budget for first boat purchase & year one expenses.

So our plan is to buy our boat and get certified on our particualr vessel to reduce costs since we are certain that it would be no problem  (I'm sure some differ, I've been told as much) to learn as we go & best to learn on what we are going to actually be investing our future in though I will be taking a basic 101 on Lake Michigan in a few weeks.

What we have to spend for boat and running costs for 1 year $20-$26K
I'd rather do it for less but that's what we have.
Taking into account that I have already learned enough to know what type and aproximate size which is how I came across this site. Researching SB/LA cruising.

What I think I know-:

1. Shoal keel/Shallow draft as we will be mostly taking this first boat only on the Pacific coast/Bahamas/Caribbean/Mexico and potentialy the ICW if we were to move from West to East coast (but East Coast is not likely as that is not where our dream lies)

2. Boat must have a head (wife's single requirement) I'd be willing to do bucket style for extra storage but she isn't.

3. I can easily expect 10% of boats value for yearly maintanence (that's right?)

4. looking at 25'-30' to accomodate these needs but not looking at larger and likely to do it on a 25'-27' for budget purposes.

5. Boat has to be seaworthy and ready to sail at purchase and still allow us running costs and provicioning/outfitting for purpose all on the above budget.

This is my first plan in very basic form so please tell me it's possible on the above budget (of course it's subject to our ability to cut costs where possible and that my wife is employable almost anywhere in the world.)

My first Plan:

Write a plan/Start a log/Come up with 1 years running costs

Lessons/Coast Guard Certification-Live Aboard first so I can get cert on my own boat and rigging?

Survey the boat/Hopefully meet someone to help us understand outfitting for our needs

By The Boat/Register The Boat

Liability & Other Insurance (ie: Health/Life 1 year paid upfront)

Mooring-1 year paid upfront at some marina somewhere (or substitute this with anchoring where possible to keep cost down?)

Emergency Equipment-minimum CG requirements

Communication Equipment-minimum CG requirements/Radio operators license;Laptop and required inverter;Software

Navigation Equipment-

Repairs Equipment-

Galley-Fridge/freezer(LARGE icebox)

Dive Equipment-(less important but something I want to learn as part of maintanence ie:hull cleaning/prop repair without drydock)

Overall provisioning-(How long can we stay self sufficient with size and fully provisioned)

Places for Adina to work or what she can do- Massage/Spa Manager

Places for Greg to work- Maintanence/Repair and overall running of onboard duties

What I need to learn:

How to (sail/navigate/maintanence/repair)

Diesel Mechanics or engine repair

Electrical systems and repair

Knot Making

Laws for the areas we will cruise (Taxes ie:local and U.S. income Tax while working outside of U.S.)

[Lynx]

How tall you are will determin what boat you want. Shorter people can get different boats.

You said 3 on a 26 footer with  a head, right? Tight. Look at the MacGregor 26 and Hunter 27 or Compac.

How heavy of weather do you want the boat to be. Per what you say any coastal cruiser could do.

Cost of the boat will be determined on what gear you will need and what needs to be replaced. Get real on this. STUDY!! Take your classes, buy and old 21 footer and put a portapotty and camping gear and go.

Living on a boat is a very different lifestyle. There is little work on shore these days. Do not count on much, if any.

Get experience, stay focused and be real with yourself. Way to much hype out there.

You are not crazy if you go about this in a realistic way. If you just bought a boat and went out, I would question your judgement.

[Cpt2Be]

Boat is for 2 adults (5'11" & 5'4") and as long as we have the headroom cramped quarters are not an issue appart from storage. Which again like you said depends on gear so I'm on top of that but reading more about provisioning for our purpose which is a bit confusing to me at this stage but I'm figuring out more by seeing what others living the same way and how they provision

1. Yep, it's got to have a head (manual is ok but we understand that a MSD electric is always a requirement for LA if we are to slip at a Marina as Live Aboards)

2. Weather, yeah we are going to make this a coastal cruiser that we would like to shore up as a capable blue water cruiser as we mature our abilities but that's most certainly not for a long while. We simply don't have the money to buy a boat that we will outgrow then buy another. If that means LA and sail on weekends shoreing up our abilities before leaving on anything major that's how it will have to be. Again we'd like very much to get trained on our boat if possible to avoid extending overhead.

3. Wife already has some job placement from her school organizing some stuff for her and if that income falls short (which I doubt and hope it won't) I can daytrade when necesary so we are on top of that as well. Mostly I'll be learning my boat and maintanence while she brings income in but we are reasonably capable of producing income.

4. We most certainly won't just buy and sail

A few we are looking at  right now are a Hunter Cherubini 27' and a few Cape Dory 25's-28's and a few Tartan 27's we intend to  try and buy with as much needed gear included of course.

In your opinion though, I'm headed in the right direction though? Thanx in advance (how do I give KaRRRma?)

[s/v Faith]

Am I crazy?

Yup.   :P

  But you are in good company.   ;D

  Much good info here, you are wise to consider some longer range goals in your plan.  I personally would not recommend an 'intermediate' boat since the boat you are looking for can take you where you want to go. 

  If you have read anything the 's/v Faith' thread you will see that my wife and I (as well as several others on this site) have found the Pearson Ariel to be just about perfect for what you are looking to do. 

Just a couple of points;

(how do I give KaRRRma?)

You can take a look at this thread;

Grogs & Lashes; all you ever wanted to know but were too afraid to ask.

But I think you have to have 10 posts before you can use that function.

Boat is for 2 adults (5'11" & 5'4") and as long as we have the headroom cramped quarters are not an issue appart from storage. Which again like you said depends on gear so I'm on top of that but reading more about provisioning for our purpose which is a bit confusing to me at this stage but I'm figuring out more by seeing what others living the same way and how they provision

  Don't underestimate the need to be able to stand up (or nearly so).  It is part of a principal that came to be know as 'the elimination of misery' principal.^TM  You don't need every available comfort, but you want to eliminate misery to the greatest extent possible.

1. Yep, it's got to have a head (manual is ok but we understand that a MSD electric is always a requirement for LA if we are to slip at a Marina as Live Aboards)

An electric head is not a requirement anywhere I know of.  Pretty important piece of gear.

2. Weather, yeah we are going to make this a coastal cruiser that we would like to shore up as a capable blue water cruiser as we mature our abilities but that's most certainly not for a long while. We simply don't have the money to buy a boat that we will outgrow then buy another. If that means LA and sail on weekends shoreing up our abilities before leaving on anything major that's how it will have to be. Again we'd like very much to get trained on our boat if possible to avoid extending overhead.

Wise.  Take the money would would put into a 'starter' boat and invest it for the long haul.

3. Wife already has some job placement from her school organizing some stuff for her and if that income falls short (which I doubt and hope it won't) I can daytrade when necesary so we are on top of that as well. Mostly I'll be learning my boat and maintanence while she brings income in but we are reasonably capable of producing income.

Once the boat is ready, you can live pretty inexpensively while you cruise.  Especially if you invest in good ground tackle.  One element of the collar-cost-estimate to consider is that it is almost always cheaper to fix something before it breaks 'out there'.

4. We most certainly won't just buy and sail

A few we are looking at  right now are a Hunter Cherubini 27' and a few Cape Dory 25's-28's and a few Tartan 27's we intend to  try and buy with as much needed gear included of course.

I would add the Ariel to the list  ;)  consider the vulnerability of the rudder when looking at hull forms like the Hunter (not to open a kettle of worms) as well as the trade off for larger volume in interior space for a given length.  More interior volume is not going to handle weather like a slightly more narrow hull (painting with a very broad brush here).

In your opinion though, I'm headed in the right direction though?

Yup.  Glad you found us here.  Welcome aboard!  (I am giving you a grog for the same reason Frank did).  :)

[Cpt2Be]

Ok... Here we go...

Cape Dory 25's (out of the question with only a 5' headroom and cost for shoering up a lot of safety concerns)
Cape Dory 25D (still a possibility but just meets headroom requirement@5'11")
Cape Dory 26   (same headroom as a 25D so still possible)
Cape Dory 27   (Currently trying to find Headroom on a 1977 & 78)
Cape Dory 28   (Currently trying to find Headroom on a 1976) (*con replacing plastic ports if need be/no bridgeneck/need to modify companionway for safety if it hasnt been done)
Cape Dory 30 (Ccurrently looking into this one seriously and looking for headroom info but provisioning ontop of purchase would bust me)

on to Tartans (there out as a noob/centerboard design safety in a knockdown)

So that's what I learned tonight ;D

[Cpt2Be]

Thank's s/v Faith Ill give them a read tonight.

As far as longer range plans...FOR SURE that was just what I wrote up while deciding if it was doable in the time we have and on our budget

[Cpt2Be]

Thanks for the heads up on the Hunter as this is something I was thinking about while looking at them. Interior volume is of very little importance to me vs handeling.

[s/v Faith]

Couple more;

(Borrowed from your earlier post)

Then we sat down recently and realized how incredibly happy we were when we were living out of canvas WWI backpacks eating grape nuts and Spaghetti O's while enjoying just being together with no interruption. That was 16 years ago and we are like many others disillusioned in the current crisis in the world and we came to a simple conclusion. We both much rather enjoy life again then work so hard just to be slaves to things we really never needed in the first place.

Don't ever let anyone or any magazine pry that vision from you.  Much of the culture, even the sailing culture is about the amassing of materiel (waterline length, extra gear, etc.)  I gotta stop now, or else I may get on a rant again...  ::) like this.

My wife and I are noobs in the noobiest way. We have been on boats but know nothing about running our own boat. We have a limited budget for first boat purchase & year one expenses.

So our plan is to buy our boat and get certified on our particualr vessel to reduce costs since we are certain that it would be no problem  (I'm sure some differ, I've been told as much) to learn as we go & best to learn on what we are going to actually be investing our future in though I will be taking a basic 101 on Lake Michigan in a few weeks.

Not sure what certification you are seeking (unless the reference to '101' is the ASA course).  Courses are an excellent was to begin, is Lake Michigan your current home water?  Your intro post said you had moved to Seattle, but I am not clear if that is where you are currently located.

What we have to spend for boat and running costs for 1 year $20-$26K
I'd rather do it for less but that's what we have.
Taking into account that I have already learned enough to know what type and aproximate size which is how I came across this site. Researching SB/LA cruising.

With caution you should be able to do that.  One advantage of the current economic situation is that there are good deals available.. you just have to hold out for them.

What I think I know-:

1. Shoal keel/Shallow draft as we will be mostly taking this first boat only on the Pacific coast/Bahamas/Caribbean/Mexico and potentialy the ICW if we were to move from West to East coast (but East Coast is not likely as that is not where our dream lies)

Wise.

2. Boat must have a head (wife's single requirement) I'd be willing to do bucket style for extra storage but she isn't.

You will avoid hastles with local authorities with some kind of approved MSD.  I am looking at the Natures way composting head myself.  I love the idea of getting rid of the black water storage tank (and it's space) and exchanging it for something I will use.

3. I can easily expect 10% of boats value for yearly maintanence (that's right?)

If the boat is in good shape when you depart.  It is a fine balance between what to fix before you leave and what to live with.  Lots of opionions available when you are considering specifics.

4. looking at 25'-30' to accomodate these needs but not looking at larger and likely to do it on a 25'-27' for budget purposes.

Sounds like a good range.   ;)

This is my first plan in very basic form so please tell me it's possible on the above budget (of course it's subject to our ability to cut costs where possible and that my wife is employable almost anywhere in the world.)

My first Plan:

Write a plan/Start a log/Come up with 1 years running costs

Good to have a portable skill.  Does the massage therapy license carry reciprocity in your intended (US) ports?

Lessons/Coast Guard Certification-Live Aboard first so I can get cert on my own boat and rigging?

The ASA / US Sailing courses are good (with the right instructor).  Don't go too far with them (on your budget).  Consider the free / cheap courses available through your local USCG Aux / Power squadron.

Survey the boat/Hopefully meet someone to help us understand outfitting for our needs

The survey can be a great investment, or a complete waste of money (especially on a non-financed vessel).  You will know your comfort level, but make sure if you use a surveyor you fond a good one.

....Mooring-1 year paid upfront at some marina somewhere (or substitute this with anchoring where possible to keep cost down?)

If you can, avoid marinas.  They will really suck the budget down.  Anchoring makes it tougher to work on the boat, as well as the risk of theft / damage.  It is not an easy decision, but I would work this one.... research the local options.  You will probably find that there is quite a range in the price.

Emergency Equipment-minimum CG requirements

Given.

Communication Equipment-minimum CG requirements/Radio operators license;Laptop and required inverter;Software

No CG requirement.  Avoid buying anything beyond a simple VHF (you can get by with a handheld to start with, and it will be a good back up if you upgrade later).

Navigation Equipment-

Avoid buying expensive chartplotters.  Get a handheld GPS, and learn to use a chart.  This technology will not fail like your laptop WILL fail as soon as you rely on it.  GPS's are a dime a dozen used... don't increase the budge for a boat that has equipment installed.. it is likely already outdated.  Bottom line, save your money here.  If you start with a chart (and hand held GPS) you can always get a chart plotter later.  If you learn on a laptop / chartplotter you will have a TOUGH time learning to navigate without it when it fails 'out there'.

Repairs Equipment-

You will likely get this kit together as you get the  boat ready.  You can never have everything, and you will likely take too much and yet still not have something you need.... it is part of the adventure!   ;)  Avoid complex systems and you will cut down the spares and repairs.

Galley-Fridge/freezer(LARGE icebox)

Some here plan to / do without.  My First Mate requested it... I was glad.  Keep the size as small as you can, they ALL suck amp hours.. even the good ones.

Dive Equipment-(less important but something I want to learn as part of maintanence ie:hull cleaning/prop repair without drydock)

Lots of discussion here.  I have it aboard Faith, but a mask and snorkle are pretty much all you really need for most maintenance tasks.

Overall provisioning-(How long can we stay self sufficient with size and fully provisioned)

Lots of good discussion on this here.  Again, you will likely take too much... yet still forget things.  Nice thing is that where ever you go the people eat THERE too.  ;)

Places for Adina to work or what she can do- Massage/Spa Manager
Places for Greg to work- Maintanence/Repair and overall running of onboard duties

I would look into the license reciprocity issue, but your stops for work are likely to be dictated by unforeseen circumstances (major repair bill, or just liking an area and wanting to stay longer) tough to predict.

What I need to learn:

How to (sail/navigate/maintanence/repair)

Diesel Mechanics or engine repair

Electrical systems and repair

Knot Making

Laws for the areas we will cruise (Taxes ie:local and U.S. income Tax while working outside of U.S.)

Never ends.  Courses are good.  Free courses are better.  Check with your USCG Auxiliary, they offer a good boating safety course and IIRC only charge for the book.  The Power squadrons are good to (especially their navigation course).

Good luck, look forward to following your progress!

(man, that was a long post).  ;)

[Amgine]

Okay, one small dash of cold water suggestion: buy a small sailing dinghy you can use as your tender. Buy it now, and play with it while you're looking for your 'real' boat.

Here's the reasoning:

• You'll begin learning to sail right away.
• Dinghies are a much bigger investment than you think, and if you buy a good one now before you buy the big boat you'll buy something better than you would after buying the big boat ('cuz you'll blow your budget on that.)
• If you have a way to get on the water you'll be able to avoid buying too quickly just 'cuz you want to get out on the water.

If you're thinking about the Cape Dory 25D (wonderful boat, fantabulous, not that I'm biased or anything...) pick out a 7' or so dinghy so it will fit on the foredeck or under the boom. Don't think about the Walker Bay 8 - after getting the dinghy and the sailing rig (and the inflatable ring) you will have spent as much as buying a nice wood dinghy from a custom builder.

[Cpt2Be]

I was just about to post in your s/v Faith log and noticed you posted here so I will reply here first as there are a few things I want to work out in my head.

It's unfortunate that we did indeed get drawn away from who we realy are by a lifestylye we had known we were never going to be happy with but meh! were still young and we figured it out in time.

Certification, well I'm not to sure on that to be honest I may have just pulled it out of my stern. Don't we need to be certified? No matter the class I'm scheduled to take is a basic sailing 101 on Lake Michigan next week and at the least it gets me familiar with more of what I need to know.

We are in Chicago presently. I had met my wife in Seattle. But we will relocate temporarily for delivery on the boat (ie: if it's purchased East Coast we will sail the ICW/If West Panama Canal)

We have learned how to live on a dime in almost every possible situation just wasn't sure if that dime was adequate for cruising and our budget is I guess in better terms our buy in budget (Boat/Insurance/Original Provisioning/ including any loose ends in gear needs/and basic running cost for the year)

Defiantely wont be purchasing 'til later in the year and hopefully that will help us finda a better deal in worse economic times (I know that sounds kind of terrible but....)

The MSD Head is something I'm researching but realy the more convienent it is the happier wife will be (her name's Adina since she would be angry if I just keep refering to her as my wife)  ::)

I'm pretty handy (even though I don't know jack about boat repair I'm a quick learner but none the less I want her at least seaworthy soI can learn on a budget instead of sinking cash in right off the bat though I know it's still a possibility)

Her license or at least license requirements are different all over half the U.S. doesnt require a license merley formal education and right now she has her placement dept looking into out of country requirements.

Though it doesn't pay directly my portable skil is maintanence and repair.

Thanks for the heads up on courses I will more than likely take this Basic next month and do a heck of a lot of reading and try to negotiate a course on our boat from the seller.

BTW I am now looking seriously at an Ariel (Your's is beautiful) and I like the layout a lot more than than the Hunter but again it's a while before purchase and I'm sure it's going to be a back and forth for in that time and I may end up with something entirely dif. Nt hardset on anything atm.

Yeah I am a bit leary of Survey merley out of potential special intrest problems but that's a while off.

Mooring, yeah I figured as much and quite frankly with a decent dingy neither of us have a problem anchoring where possible. As you said working that is def needed for budget.

Provisioning. Given enough time I'm confident in my skills to get this right. I'm a firm believer in prepare for the worst hope for the best and that's never failed me in many dif situations.

thanks for all the help and your thread on the s/v Faith is truley inspiring

Greg

[Cpt2Be]

Okay, one small dash of cold water suggestion: buy a small sailing dinghy you can use as your tender. Buy it now, and play with it while you're looking for your 'real' boat.

Here's the reasoning:

• You'll begin learning to sail right away.
• Dinghies are a much bigger investment than you think, and if you buy a good one now before you buy the big boat you'll buy something better than you would after buying the big boat ('cuz you'll blow your budget on that.)
• If you have a way to get on the water you'll be able to avoid buying too quickly just 'cuz you want to get out on the water.

If you're thinking about the Cape Dory 25D (wonderful boat, fantabulous, not that I'm biased or anything...) pick out a 7' or so dinghy so it will fit on the foredeck or under the boom. Don't think about the Walker Bay 8 - after getting the dinghy and the sailing rig (and the inflatable ring) you will have spent as much as buying a nice wood dinghy from a custom builder.

I will keep that in mind and it makes sense that it would end up very second thought after blowing my funds on a Boat

[jotruk]

Cpt2be I have a  27' Hunter (1979) it does have a large interior volume and I can stand up in it(6'0") I like the storage space and the topside decks are wide enough to move around on with little difficulty. The rudder has not been a problem so far although I had to replace the thought hull for the depth sounder as it started leaking bad. It was sealled with plumbers putty by a P.O.
I have been told that when cruising you can get by on fairly small amounts of cash but that it will take what ever you want to put into it. well this is my 2 cents worth

[Oldrig]

Hi Greg:

You've been getting lots of good advice from other members here. Just let me add a couple of other words that might be of interest:

On the Cape Dory 25D (which you'll find more easily on the East Coast): It's very similar to the Ariel (also a lovely Alberg design), with one unique characteristic that might well appeal to Adina--instead of a V-berth, there's a very spacious, separate head compartment. After cruising in a catboat with a porta potty, my wife Lynne fell in love with that feature. (Unfortunately, she never fell in love with sailing, but that's another story . . .) The large head compartment could easily be modified for additional storage without compromising the basic concept.

One very strong negative to the large, forward head compartment: The holding tank is aft of the cabin, under the engine. This means you're carrying waste through a long pipe that passes through the storage compartment under the port settee/bunk. And, the holding tank is small. (I've been considering replacing that arrangement with a composting head.)

On availability of boats: The current economy has created the strongest buyer's market (weakest seller's market) in the history of recreational boating. Until I got laid off (as of July 1), one of my jobs at a regional boating magazine was to write a column about the state of the industry. Every day, it seems, the trade press was full of stories of plant shut-downs, collapse of dealerships, etc., etc. And, of course, people who can barely meet their on-land expenses (huge homes, large credit-card balances, Hummers) are selling their boats.

On getting a survey: Once you find a boat that you want to buy, don't cut corners by avoiding a professional survey. Be sure to look at Dan "Adriftatsea" 's list of tips for buying a used sailboat, posted somewhere on this board. But, once you find the boat you want, go ahead and spend the extra $300 or so to have a pro look it over.

On seaworthiness: I can recommend two terrific boats by John Vigor: Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere and The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Gear, and Handling.

It sounds you folks are in a good position to explore living aboard: You're young, you aren't weighed down with possessions and you've got skill sets that should be portable. Best of luck.

--Joe

[Cpt2Be]

Cpt2be I have a  27' Hunter (1979) it does have a large interior volume and I can stand up in it(6'0") I like the storage space and the topside decks are wide enough to move around on with little difficulty. The rudder has not been a problem so far although I had to replace the thought hull for the depth sounder as it started leaking bad. It was sealled with plumbers putty by a P.O.
I have been told that when cruising you can get by on fairly small amounts of cash but that it will take what ever you want to put into it. well this is my 2 cents worth

Most certainly no boat has been eliminated.

Hi Greg:

You've been getting lots of good advice from other members here. Just let me add a couple of other words that might be of interest:

On seaworthiness: I can recommend two terrific boats by John Vigor: Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere and The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat: A Guide to Essential Features, Gear, and Handling.

--Joe

I will pick up those two books asap

Thanks to everybody and I am already very happy we have made this decision

Greg

[CharlieJ]

I might also add- take a look at James Baldwin's website about his Triton Atom-

http://www.atomvoyages.com/

Twice around the world aboard her

and in particular this section of his web site concerning "good old boats". Note that our Meridian 25 is on that list ;)

http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/boatlist.htm

[Cpt2Be]

I might also add- take a look at James Baldwin's website about his Triton Atom-

http://www.atomvoyages.com/

Twice around the world aboard her

and in particular this section of his web site concerning "good old boats". Note that our Meridian 25 is on that list ;)

http://www.atomvoyages.com/articles/boatlist.htm

Thanks, been using that site for a few days to help narrow what I want to take a more thourough look at

[Cpt2Be]

I guess I should start a log soon so I don't keep doing it here and end up with hundred page "Am I Crazy" thread 'cause it might start to look that way.   :o

In the meantime I am taking a SERIOUS look at the 3 Ariel's over on yacht world's listings and I have'nt had a chance to look further and won't have the rest of the day to do it CAUSE I'm taking my first lesson in a few hours YIPEEE!

I'l let you all know how that went.

"A SERIOUS look at the Ariel's" beautiful beautiful vessel. If anyone's on here reading my ranting anymore hop over and take a look at them tell me what you think (esp. s/v Faith)

[Auspicious]

I think you are getting good advice. Hopefully mine will be of similar quality.

Look for local racers and sign on as crew. You will learn more and faster that way than any other. Some boats will even feed you! If you get on a boat and are treated as railmeat with no chance to learn simply move on to another boat. Racing with a good skipper is about the only way to gain good experience better AND faster AND cheaper.

Note that I sail a somewhat larger boat than many here (they let me hang around anyway) so bear that in mind when considering my comments.

A well-installed refrigeration system does not mean you can't use the box as an ice-box.

Women are people too (most of them anyway), but there does seem to be a pattern of behavior. As long as there is room in the head compartment you can change the toilet. I happen to be rather fond of an electric toilet, but I suggest that a unit with a full-size oval bowl will be more comfortable for Adina than a "classic" round marine bowl.

Find a way to keep the toilet paper dry. Make this a priority.

If Adina wants things to be pretty make that a priority also.

You will spend many many more nights at anchor or otherwise moored than you do underway. Comfortable sleeping at anchor is much more important than sea berths. You can always sleep on the floor on passage.

Good knot skills are important but you don't need to know a hundred. You should be able to tie a bowline in the dark when it is pouring rain. You should be comfortable and confident with clove hitches and reef (square knots). A trucker's hitch comes in handy very often, as does an anchor bend. Anything else you likely have plenty of time to look up in Brion Toss' "The Rigger's Apprentice" which you should have.

On a limited budget use your local library to read books before you spend money on them. There is a lot of duplication and distressing amount of poor material out there. For example, you should probably own either Chapman Piloting Seamanship & Boat Handling or the Annapolis Book of Seamanship but not both (I prefer Chapman). Most of the books dedicated to living aboard are not particularly useful.

I culled a lot of books when I moved aboard. Somewhere I have a list I have posted of what made the cut to be worth keeping. If you're interested I'll dig it out and post it again.

Sport-A-Seat chairs are priceless in the cockpit.

Ask "why" a lot. It will make you feel like a 3-year-old, but will help you separate the people who know what they are talking about and have good reasons from those who just rehash cultural beliefs and repeat what they have read. No one should be offended by being asked to explain their rationale for a recommendation.

sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious

[Cpt2Be]

OK, so that was a blast! First lesson and 3 to go for my basic but HOLY JEBUS that was FUN! It was a beautiful day here for it.

I probably will continue into an intermediate in the same program here (it's not to expensive and wont break the budget)

I have had to order all the books listed as no one has them around here and our nearest library is way out of the way of regular daily activities but that's no biggie either.

And though availability and costs will definitely dictate which boat we settle into it is reasonable to assume it's going to be one of the following though I haven't had a the time today to look at more it's a good starting point I think;

Ariel (good prices/lower availability) Cape Dory (good prices/high availability) Hunter 27 (good prices/high availability)


Keep in mind I am still looking at others but I like what I see in these three (fit for purpose and so on)
keeping in mind not to pay for what I don't need in outfitting while getting the most for my purchase. Apart from the '64 Ariel that appears I'd need to modify a reasonable bit to take her where we want to go.

s/v Faith lots of good money saving advice on loadout and thx for that. We just need functionality and safety not convenience.

Auspicious, I have ordered the books you mentioned. I am an inquisitive individual and never have a problem asking why. While we were out today (myself and the three other students) and I was the only one who asked why, what and how to the extent that the other students seemed like they were a little put off but meh, they weren't opening their mouth.

Again you all are so helpful that I hope at sometime I am able to do for you as you have done for us.

Greg

[nowell]

Just a plug for my boat (because lets face it, we all like to peddle what we love), take a look at Albin Vegas. They come in pretty close to what your looking for, and they are a rock solid boat. Even with an original rig and pretty old sails, I still get up to hull speed, and have no worries in a blow.

Also, the prices are very competative, and they had a great production run, so they are out there.