Another windvane thread...weight related

[ntica]

What windvane, manufactor do you use (if any?). Thre a whole lot of them out there. Usually on the aftermarket is an old type of Windpilot...and some home mades.
I've been looking on Hydrovane for 3.800 usd :P
What is your oppinion? for a 2 ton 26 footer?

[Captain Smollett]

My wish is to build one, at least my first one.

If I ever buy a commercial one, it will likely be a Cape Horn.  That it was specifically initially designed for an Alberg 30 is  HUGE selling point for me, plus I like the design.  I like the idea of supporting Yves Gelinas, also.

[Oldrig]

My wish is to build one, at least my first one.

If I ever buy a commercial one, it will likely be a Cape Horn.  That it was specifically initially designed for an Alberg 30 is  HUGE selling point for me, plus I like the design.  I like the idea of supporting Yves Gelinas, also.

FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with you about the Cape Horn. I had the pleasure of meeting Yves once in Annapolis (it was cold and rainy on the first day of the Sailboat Show, and he had plenty of time to chat), and he's really passionate about his product. Clearly a man who loves his work, and therefore worth supporting.

In addition, a friend installed one on his Cape Dory 28, and he said Yves was very helpful any time he called with questions about installation and adjustment. Unfortunately my friend discovered that he had to rebuild his boat's rudder, so he never got to sail with the vane.

When I sailed to Bermuda last year, the Cape Dory 33 we were on had a Monitor, which worked very well (better than the Raytheon autopilot that crapped out on us).

I've got plans for two different home-made vanes, but I don't think I've really got the technical skills required to make one that would actually work.

--Joe

[Captain Smollett]

I've got plans for two different home-made vanes, but I don't think I've really got the technical skills required to make one that would actually work.

--Joe

Good time to build those skills, eh?  As my nephew, Mike, says, "Activity Breeds Results."

One thing's for sure...you'll NEVER build one if you don't try.  Who cares if it works or not, though I'm betting it would.

[ntica]

Yes the Cape Horn is high up on the "want" list! I also like Yve's...
The benefit with Hydrovane is the "none lines in the well" and can be mounted offset = easier on my kind of boat, with transom hung rudder.
I have tried to make one my self, and I think I can make it work ??? But on my comming voyage, think it would be safer/ better with an allready tried out model.
I got an idea from PBO English boat mag. By using a bicycle, and parts from it. Sorry but don't have the Mag. maybe google? But think about it ::) The fork will be the vaneholder, the "pedals part" will be the rudder part and so on...
Hope you understand my English?!

[rorik]

Any one have any info, comments on the South Atlantic wind vane?

http://www.south-atlantic.com.ar/wind_vane_self_steering/wind_vane_self_steering.html

[ntica]

Here's my ol' prototype ;D Big plans from a bicycle...

[ntica]

here's one more for the homemade...

[Bill NH]

I've been looking on Hydrovane for 3.800 usd :P
What is your oppinion? for a 2 ton 26 footer?

Thats a LOT of money for self steering...  try building one and if you don't like it than look at used windvanes.  You should be able to find something good for half that price.

For a 26 foot boat you also need to think about the weight of the unit.  Both the Aries and Monitor vanes are relatively heavy...  that's why the Pacific Light vane was specifically designed to be less than half the weight of the Monitor, so it would work well on smaller boats.  A Monitor is fine on a bigger boat - I had one on a 38 ft sloop and it was great.  But its too heavy for a 26 footer in my opinion... look for something lighter.

[ntica]

Hello Bill. About the weight consern. I've been in contact with most of the mentioned manufatorer. And none!!! see this as a problem. most of smaller sailboats have alot more weight on the stern. without any self steerer. The Danish Aries mano. did a circum nav. round cape Horn. in a similar boat as my IF.
Aries is very strong and can do a capzise and still work.
expensive. 3300 EUR
Monitor is a great windvane. and also fit my IF superb. Many are using them on Folkboats. cost: 4000USD...But here's a vat, tax to pay in Sweden. for overseas shipment. even more money lost.
Hydrovane is fantastic. even mount it offcenter, without any attached lines in the well. almost 6000 USD to my door. this Hydrovane would I prefer the most, second the Aries. About the Windpilot. yes many on IF boats, Atlantic crossings and so on. but would it survive a knockdown? and heard about some damping disseffects. I contacted Peter about this, and he sead none of them is true, ratio 2:1 same as monitor (if I'm not wrong?!) And then the fantastic Cape Horn from Yve's, my hero. yes definitly but I don't like the "outboard" model, for some reason, and tax to pay here in Sweden seem like a bad idea. it's a huge investment. but nessecery I think. I'm not capable to build a safe one myself so... Denmark is 30km from my home so Aries is high up. what you say?

[Captain Smollett]

Hello Bill. About the weight consern. I've been in contact with most of the mentioned manufatorer. And none!!! see this as a problem.

Maybe it's just my cynicism showing, but that's not really surprising.  They want to sell wind vanes. 

Weight in the ends of small boats can be a BIG problem.  A lot depends on transom shape, but setting a boat by the stern even a few centimeters can be drastically detrimental to her handling and certainly to her speed.

To give an idea how sensitive this can be, here are two (related) examples.  A friend of mine was a avid SJ 21 racer, and he once told me that 'in the groove.' he could observe 'significant' boat speed differences simply by changing his weight distribution from one buttock to another as he sat still in the cockpit.

Yes, the SJ 21 is a light racer not a heavyish full keeler, but the principle still applies.

I put this to the test on my little trailer boat, and found not only do such slight weight (trim) changes change boat speed, but also helm balance - to a noticeable degree.  I can change that boat's helm balance in light wind from a lee helm to a weather helm (just slightly to weather of neutral) by moving forward in the cockpit a mere 2-3 centimeters.

Again, this a light boat, so perhaps it is exaggerated, but putting weight astern is perhaps something you should consider very carefully.  Just because others do it does not, by itself, make it a good idea.

And finally, I'll let my sheet-to-tiller bias show...if you lack funds for a vane gear right now or cannot find one 'suitable' to your required specifications, why not consider sheet-to-tiller self steering?  There are a couple of threads on sailfar and other sites on the internet that discuss it, and to start experimenting, you probably already have the necessary pieces (ie, not money to outlay, or very, very little).

In other words, $0-20 US for self-steering seems MIGHT attractive to me compared to $3000-6000...at least in the interim period while you figure out what vane will work best for you and find one on the used market.

Just some thoughts ...

[phil416]

Capt. Smollett;  Once again I find myself in agreement with you.  I Selected the Windpilot Pacific Light for the exact resons you cite.  It weghs just 26 lbs..  Further the design allows the vane and the servo pendulum to be replaced with 4mm plywood and a 1x4 board respectatviley.  The performance has been superb.  The pendulum began to fail as I approached Grenada, butshe got me there.  a simple weld fixed it.  There is a definite learning curve involved for peak performance.  My best advice is to watch the vane in action and adjust until she pulls equally both to port and starboard.  balance is critical the smaller the the arc of the vane the smoother the course.  I had a Hydrovane on a Nick 32 and it got the job done but its a lot of weight aft.  Upon getting back home I immediatly moved the batteries forward and down next to the sink drain, and moved the sea anchor, drogue, and parafanelia forward to the starboard cockpit locker, and then moved fenders etc to the lazorette.  When at sea the anchors and chain are stored amidships allowing the bow to rise to the waves.  The only drawback being that the boat sometimes sails off the waves and dives in.  For anyone planning to go offshore think carefully about keeping weight away from the ends of the boat.  Fair winds Phil

[ntica]

I do appriciate your adwise. It seem like you're know what you're talking about. One of many reasons why I like "sailfar". will check this up carefully.

[phil416]

Ntica; If you liive near Goteborg, Look up Jonas and Ingrid Akerblom who made an incredible trans Atlantic voyage aboard their 25' self  constructed sailboat Ouhm.

[ntica]

Phil. will check this one up! thanx!
anyone live near by "Annapolis"???

[phil416]

ntica; I will be going to Solomons Md. about 80 km south of Annapolis come spring, if nothing better comes by Phil

[Jim_ME]

Agree with Bill that it seems like the price is quite high for a used one.

I've seen two wind vane setups for sale in Maine in the past couple years, both of brands that I recognized at the time but am not sure I remember correctly... (one may have been a Aries?) in the $500 range. I realized that was a good deal and considered pursuing one, but didn't really need it yet (as much as other things). [Didn't go inspect them, so actual condition was unknown, and likely an issue at these prices.]

Other thought is that Tania Aebi had a Monitor on her [5,400 lb] Contessa 26 (similar hull form to the folkboat), and it seemed to work well for her. Perhaps it helps that the boat design has fairly full quarters and transom, and not much overhang--and may be able to handle the weight better than a form with a finer stern and longer overhangs?

[Manannan]

The Cap Horn windvane is an excellent choice in my opinion, not only because of the product itself but also because of the outstanding services et communications with Yves Gelinas and his company.
Though the installation is not an easy one and if you do not do it yourself be extremely careful who you hire. If you leave in the Bay Area, in CA, I strongly recommend with Yves advice to avoid a certain guy who pretends to be an expert but has not yet rigged his own Cap Horn in 8 years...and has "butchered" some jobs he did on some boats.I will gladly inform anyone who this person is, just get in touch with me.

[ntica]

I want to tell you . There's an Aries for sale in US for 500 USD. needs to rebuild. cheap anyhow, I would have bought it but it's to complicated, the seller don't want any p&P. just cash money when picked up... so I let you in on it. If someone interested let me know and I provide you with adress and phone nr.

[ntica]

here's a cheap windvane in sweden.
http://www.blocket.se/blekinge/Oljekylare__Vindroder_37327338.htm?ca=23_3&w=3