New build 28

[Sunset]

What do you all think about this layout? I don't like the sharp corner of the head sticking out in the cabin area or having to crawl out of the V berth like a reptile. But it could be a starting point for a cabin layout. My build will be a foot longer and nearly 2 feet wider so things could be changed a bit.

[tomwatt]

What do you all think about this layout? I don't like the sharp corner of the head sticking out in the cabin area...

I've seen a variation of this layout, with the corner clipped off into an angle, with the door occupying the angle as a folding door. Looks like a nice, no-nonsense layout.
Even if you don't take that approach, you could still soften the corner by a few inches to make it less of a "shoulder-biter".

[Sunset]

Got the shear line marked and the deck shelves cut in. One deck shelf is dry fitted. Hope to get them both glued up Saturday. Then finish stripping the top sides next week. If I can get the time to accomplish this we can epoxy the hull the following week. Then the sanding and fairing start. Hope to have a glassed hull by this time next month. Then start laying up the keel and skeg. :)

[Sunset]

Here's one deck shelf dry fitted. The hull will be stripped down past the shelf then cut to the shelves contour .

[Chattcatdaddy]

Looking real good. The build seems to be going at a pretty good rate.

How long until you will get to the epoxy stage?

[David_Old_Jersey]

What do you all think about this layout? I don't like the sharp corner of the head sticking out in the cabin area or having to crawl out of the V berth like a reptile. But it could be a starting point for a cabin layout. My build will be a foot longer and nearly 2 feet wider so things could be changed a bit.

I don't think the scale on that pic is quite right  ??? if That saloon berth / settee is around 6 foot then I only see 20 odd foot of boat.....or the berth is 9 foot long, which if the case probably means you need a bit more legroom in the head!

Anyway, a couple of thoughts:-

Hanging lockers - I think 2 is a bit too much on a 28 footer, space better used elsewhere.
Space - apart from the physical size of the boat, the feeling of space can be created (and removed!) visually - specifically by having as few full height compartments and cupboards as possible in the saloon. 2 full height hanging lockers and a large heads compartment will make her seem small.
The Head - I would favour either having the head aft (doubling as wet locker) or in the forecabin. For me a toilet under a berth is on the yuck list! (especially if under your head!), so I would consider dispensing with the berths in the forecabin! The plus is that the hanging lockers could be moved into the forecabin (now a forepeak) plus plenty of stowage. Would very much depend on getting at least some headroom at the front of the forepeak, but should give you plenty of legroom (and arm room if also a shower) - and the above waist room will make it feel less like you are having a poop in a cupboard!
Extra Settee Berth - moving the head foward should give you the space to create a 2nd berth on the starboard side - the plus being aprt from extra lounging space is that can also serve as good sea berth on the downhill side. The compromise being that the (in port) double bed would  not be permanent - but as starting with a blank piece of paper should be able to come up with something that works well - whether the berth is length ways or accross the beam.
Quarter Berths - I hate them! for me they are akin to sleeping in a coffin and often not an easy climb in (or out!) - with the 2nd settee / sea berth IMO not needed (in practice they are mostly used for storage - stuff at the end being a PITA to reach!). Therefore I would cut the Sea berth in half - 50% as another cockpit locker and 50% saloon stowage (bedding etc).

Whilst I won't say my boat is perfect (I have a 1/4 berth! used solely for stowage) and another foot or 2 in the galley (especially for work surfaces) would be nice overall she functions well. At 30' a touch larger than your boat - but she does have an Aft Cabin which reduces the size of the Cockpit (no full length seats  :-[) and the saloon (probably about the same size as yours will be). Am presently creating a double bed in the Aft Cain (but as no immediate use for a double! that will be walk in stowage) - in the saloon I will be creating a double berth (but that not high on the priority list).

The below is a tad small, but shows the layout:-



and the forepeak:



and teh saloon:



The above are sister ships - more pics (of mine and others) by clicking on the link in my signature.

[Sunset]

Thanks for the input. I like to always be thinking of differant ways of doing things.

We hope to be epoxying the hull within the next two weeks. Have her glassed by mid May, so I can start laying up the keel and skeg. I got more cypress strips cut and scarfted yesterday. So we will be glueing up the shelfs saturday and then finish stripping.

I really like the layout of that boat David, Thanks for posting it. It gives me more food for thought.

[marujo_sortudo]

I agree with most of what David said.  I do like well-designed quarter berths, but if not well-designed, they can be a real pain to exit/enter.  I came across this graphic which is neat because it shows some different configurations of a 28' hull:

http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1172

I'd add that I'd try and keep the layout as open as possible, which will be a boon for both ventilation and create a feeling of spaciousness.  We just have a curtain for the fo'c'sle, which includes a pipe berth (good for guests, but serves as convenient stowage most of the time), the head, and a lot of stowage.  Think about things like where you'll want to put spare sails and or a goodly bit a wet stuff that you've had to bring below for whatever reason.  You'll want a good bit of space that's not covered in cushion, or cushions that can easily be stowed out of the way elsewhere.  I am a big fan of an aft galley (pretty much right at the companionway) and a head in the fo'c'sle.

Don't know if you're planning on an cooler weather cruising, but a "detail" that is often overlooked is where to mount a cabin heater.  I've seen some in really awkward locations where you're liable to bump into them or they limit berth space, etc...

I'd also spend a lot of time thinking about stowage layout for everything from provisions to spares to sails.  Where will the batteries, tanks, etc. go?  The best place for heavy things is of course low and centered fore-and-aft.  Naturally, probably not all of it will be able to go there.  Lots of tradeoffs to consider.

When you think you've got the layout nailed down and the hull flipped over, you could make a mock-up inside the hull using cardboard, a boxcutter, and packing tape.  There's only so much you can see on paper, and you might come up with a few last minute refinements.

[David_Old_Jersey]

I like the idea of a Pipe Berth / Cot in the forepeak. Principal use as stowage - and for guests (upside is that they won't be staying for 3 months!).

I must confess that I don't recall whether Sunset is setting up the boat for self, with a partner (or also with kids?)......in any case I would suggest that (particularly for future resale) that 4 Berths would be a good idea, even if two of those are used to stow gear (or kids!). In this case that might mean that the 1/4 berth reappears  :(.....although I would favour a second pipe cot, either in the forepeak or above a settee berth (or at least a provision for one designed in).

FWIW, over here (UK) the Open plan layout (at least on the older / more traditonal boats) is a rarity - even on smaller boat sizes (to the point of sometimes forcing a seperate forecabin beyond what makes sense!). Personally I do kinda like the look of what I would call the open "American Layout" of a U shaped settee, with double berth behind (and above) in the bow area. Just not entirely sure how practical that would be to live with for extended periods. The head in the forepeak is (in these parts) a throwback to the 50's and 60's (and earlier?) from when sail changes were needed and forepeak made the perfect location for the sail locker ("stuff the sail down the hatch - and worry about it later!").

[Sunset]

David we are planning to live aboard around six months a year, just the wife and I. With an occasional visitor. We hope to sail or motor down 600 miles or so to the Gulf by the way of the Tenn-Tom in the Fall. Then down to the Keys or further for the winter.  Then back in late spring after the river flooding has eased. This would be a yearly trip depending upon our parents health and needs.

Thanks for the links to the Shannon boats, Ive always liked them and admire some of their construction habits.

One thing the interior design will have to work around is the mizzen tabernacle will be at the back of the cabin on the center line. So the companion way will be off set.

There's just so much to think about on the layout. I'm glad I can't build this thing in 4 months, gives much needed time for thought, and advice, hopefully with less mistakes.
After I get the structural bulkheads in I will do as stated earlier and lay out everything in cardboard or cheap 1/4 inch osb and try to get the feel how it will work.

As for heat, this is my thought at the moment. Anyone with experience here please chime in. We will have a heater plumbed into the Beta 20 for underway on the rivers. Plan to use a small ceramic at the 30 plus marinas along the Tenn-Tom. Also if we would anchor out on the way to warm weather, we could use the clay pot on the stove to knock the chill off, with a little ventilation of course. But we hope to be in the Gulf by the 1st of November every year.

We plan on using the V berth for our main sleeping area. I know underway this is not the best choice. But the type of cruising we are planning having to sleep there underway will be rare. We may make a straight shot from Mobile to the Keys and maybe one from the Bahamas to Pamlico sound. But those will be rare. We could use the settee for those since one of us will be at the helm anyway. We have both slept pretty good at anchor in rough water in the v berth of our 19 foot boat as long as it wasn't beam waves we were dealing with. I hope the action of this boat will be less than the 19 footer. I will have more trouble than my wife, I think she can sleep anywhere. I was once pounding into large waves for most of the day and my wife said she was going below for a nap. I thought there's no way she's going to sleep in this. The spray was coming over the cabin top and hitting me in the face every time the bow would sink in, before she would rise again. After about 15 minutes I looked down the companion way and she was sleeping like a baby, and did for three hours. I couldn't believe it.

I have a roofing job to do next week, but it looks like rain. So I may be able to finish stripping this tub next week and get her epoxyed up. ;)

Scott

[David_Old_Jersey]

I am not expert (to put it mildly!) on rigging / sailplans - but that sounds very far forward for a Mizzen on a 28 footer. But I am guessing that is as designed, rather than just a conveniant place to put it  ;D

Whilsy giving you (yet more!) ideas to ponder over  :P - how about self stowing washboards? (low tech - powered by bungee cord!).....30 seconds of Youtube a far easier explantation than I can do in words!

http://youtu.be/6USBW0EEw-o

[CharlieJ]

If this is a Princess 28, then remember- the sail plan is a cat ketch- here's the 26 as an example

[Sunset]

When I ask Graham to design this boat, I asked that she had a cockpit no longer then the Belhaven. Which was about 6'6" and make the cabin as long as possible. That makes the mizzen tabernacle right on the back of the cabin. Charlie its not a Princess, shes a whole new design. I suggested to Graham to name her Candice28 after a daughter we lost. So far on the plans shes called Scott's boat. ;D  I have the sail plan drawing but its on a very large sheet and I don't know how to get it from paper to here.
I'll see what I can do.

[David_Old_Jersey]

I wouldn't go to any extra aggro on my account - it's not as if I really know what I am looking at!

But if a Cat Ketch, then that Mizzen being the forward end of the cockpit does now make sense (at least to me!) - given that the main mast also being further forward (than a Bermudan / Marconi rig).

Anyway, nice to see that someone (else!) has the good taste to go for a mizzen mast  ;D

[Sunset]

Here is a picture of the sailplan, its not very good.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Yup, I was right.........I don't really know what I am looking at  :P

But when it comes to boats, I come from the school of thought: "it if it looks right - it probably is"....and to my mind she looks right  8).

[ntica]

great job! And keep it up!

[matt195583]

Impressive stuff mate. 

[Sunset]

Thanks
Both deck shelves are glued up now and we are ready to finish stripping :). Looks as I am going to get rained out this week( Darn ) so hope to finish stripping by weeks end. Then its time to fill the gaps and start fairing  8)
Been really procrastinating on these shelves because I knew they had to be right on, or it would ruin the look of the boat if that sheer line wasn't right. The sheer is the first line I see on a boat and a proper boot is the second. Both have the power to destroy the looks of the whole boat.

[Sunset]

All the strips are on and will be starting the epoxy gap filling very soon. Plan to tack her together between the frames and fairing strips one day. On the second day remove all the screws and finish filling the gaps. Then its on to the sanding and fairing marathon.
Our goal is still to have the hull finished and turned sometime in July.
As soon as shes glassed we'll start laying up the keel and skeg for the rudder.