Anchors, anchors again, & more anchors....

[s/v Faith]

....I like the Fortress anchors.  I have used them on OPB's, and really like pulling them in.   ;D  Oh yea, and the way they set and hold too...  ;)

  So, I look at their chart... fx-7 lists 16-27' boats... (too small for me) so I go to the fx-11.  That is better at 28-33'  but then I look at the FX-16.  The size is not much bigger then the R.O.D. and you could anchor a fleet of our boats on the thing..  ;D ;D ;D

  So then I look at the second R.O.D. I have on board.  It is a smallish one that sits in the lazy-rat hatch on top of 75' of rode that I can literally toss overboard with one hand as a 'parking brake' _{(the anchor, not the rode.)}

  So I go ahead and bite the bullet and buy an FX-7 to replace the R.O.D......

  SO, they arrive.

First, I am really impressed with the quality.  I have looked and used others, but I am feeling pretty good about these.

  So, I put the FX-7 together.....  :-\  it 'seems' as big as the R.O.D.B.F.  I have not yet tried but am thinking this think will not fit in my lazy-rat hatch without some twisting and turning... not too cool for the 'parking brake'.  >:(

  Then I put the FX-16 together...  again great quality.  I will say 'great' anchor... even though I have not yet used it.

  It is 'great' in that it looks like it belongs on the bow of the queen marry... _{(ok, maybe not quite that big)} 

  Thankfully it can be taken apart, and stowed below as a storm anchor. 

  On re-checking the measurements the FX-7 will fit on the bow as the replacement for the  R.O.D. B. F.  8)

  So...

Fortress makes a less fancy version of their anchors called the 'guardian' series.  They are not anodized, and they do not offer the adjustable fluke feature (for really soft mud).  I looked at them, but decided against them as I noticed they seem to test lower too... can't really esplain that.  ???

  Buuuutttt...... there is a smaller guardian.. a 2.5# model that should fit in the lazy rat nicely....   ;D :D ;) :D ;D


  .......please help me friends.  ;D

Picture for comparisonl

 

[Lynx]

I have  a SuperMax 12 (18 pounds) and have been happy with it. I have a MacGregor 26M with a 50hp. This anchor holds at 3800 rpm's. I don't push it more than that. The 13 pound fluke would not hold above 2300 rpm's.  Hard sand, mud.

It will reset with boat moving 3+ knots. (another story)

[Ged]

I run a 15lb Manson plow off the bow and I have a 10lb galvo danforth back up. Works fine on my TS 16 Hartley. Best, Ged

[s/v Faith]

John posted that he has bought a 35# Manson Supreme (I think it was the Supreme) for his Alberg so I thought I might post some updated impressions of my Manson Supreme (#25).

  It has set very quickly and held very well so far.  We have used it with 3:1 in a fair amount of current and wind and it has held well.  It makes a big difference to me as I do nto sleep well until I KNOW the anchor is holding.  I usually wait until the tide has turned before I call it 'set' and the Manson has not let me down.

  I used to not go less then 5:1 with my RODBF (Rusty Old Danforth, Bent Fluke) and I did not feel comfortable on less then 7:1. 

  I am very happy with the Manson, and would buy it again.


 

[Captain Smollett]

Thanks for the vote of confidence...it IS the Manson Supreme that I got.  Picked it up today, as a matter of fact.

That 35 lb-er is one honkin big anchor.   ;D

The plan is to use the Manson as #1 bower, 33lb Bruce (actual) as #2 and 22 lb Danforth (clone) as #3, with a 13 lb Danforth (actual) as kedge.  Right now, Gaelic Sea is riding to the Bruce and the big Dannie as her Bahamian Moor, and so far, so good.

I'm glad to hear that you are so far satisfied with the Manson.  It helps, in terms of my 'quality of sleep' in nights to come.   ;D ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who things a 15kg anchor is about the right size for a 28-30' boat.   I was out at Tarpaulin Cove again, and was rather horrified by the size that most powerboaters consider sufficient for their boats.  A 31' Silverton, 14000 lbs., had a 12 lb. Danforth as its primary anchor, and from what I could tell, no secondary anchor aboard.

[rtbates]

I have a 14 lb. Danforth, with 8' of chain and 100' of 1/2" three-strand nylon for use as a lunch hook/kedge anchor.  At some point, I'd like to get a slightly larger (20 lb. or so) Danforth, for use as a secondary, and then use the 14 lb. as a backup.

Paranoia, when it comes to the ground tackle for my boat, is a requirement.

Be very afraid of danforths as they do not like to reset. THREE beaching because my danforth didn't reset after a 180 wind shift and incoming storm. I now use a 22lb bruce. It doesn't, usually, have to reset as it never even leaves the bottom when a 180 wind shift occurs. It simply pivots in the bottom and when I watched it even dug in deeper as it pivoted. My danforth now plugs a hole in my fence to keep my dog in. Works great, never needs resetting!! My secondary anchor is a 16.5lb bruce and my storm anchor will be a fortress as big as I can store (used for STRAIGHT line pull).

[AdriftAtSea]

I am well aware of that RTBates... that's why I have a 15 KG Rocna as a primary anchor, now with 75' of 5/16" chain and 150' of 5/8" three-strand as a rode.  My secondary is currently a 12 or 13 lb. Danforth with 15' of 5/16" chain and 100' of 5/8" three-strand for a rode.  After some thought, I am planning on getting a 22 lb. Delta as a new secondary and using the Danforth as a stern anchor.  :D

[Fortis]

I had a wild and wooley experience on the weekend that basically saw a yacht mooring turn into a surf beach....

ONE SINGLE WAVE hitting the side of the bombard dinghy was enough to break the outboard motor mount's pivot pin, so that I got to grab it before it went to the bottom (still running, no less) and so compressed the pontoon on that side that it blew off a patch that had been professionally fitted by Zodiac (it actually blew a small section of seam near the floor join too).

That kind of weather.

I can say with great sincerity, I love my SARCA anchor, I really really do!

Alex.

[rtbates]

I am well aware of that RTBates... that's why I have a 15 KG Rocna as a primary anchor, now with 75' of 5/16" chain and 150' of 5/8" three-strand as a rode.  My secondary is currently a 12 or 13 lb. Danforth with 15' of 5/16" chain and 100' of 5/8" three-strand for a rode.  After some thought, I am planning on getting a 22 lb. Delta as a new secondary and using the Danforth as a stern anchor.  :D

GOOD DEAL!!

[CharlieJ]

Tehani's bow set up.. 22 pound Claw, 75 feet of 1/4 G4 chain, 200 feet 1/2 inch 3 strand nylon



Two 10 inch Herreshoff bronze cleats. Snubber is 25 feet of 1/2 nylon and a chain hook.


Backed up with a 12 pound Hi-tensile Danforth, 25 feet of 1/4 G4 and 200 feet of 1/2 nylon.  Anchor stowed in cockpit locker, rode stowed under cockpit floor.

Also aboard when we cruise- a 15 pound folding Northill, 25 feet of chain for that and another 200 feet of nylon, only this time it's 5/8ths.

We also always have a 4 pound Danforth, 6 feet of chain and 50 feet of 3/8 nylon. we use that as a "Locator" anchor. To stop a swing, position the boat to ride a swell, etc- NOT to anchor on.

[cgoinggal]

 ???
Have not stopped by in awhile and am pleased to see so much traffic on the site!

I am getting married and as a result the boat (Andunge) is undergoing transformation from a good boat to an even better boat with the plan of traversing the globe with two hands on board.

As such, everything is being evaluated and changed.

Currently, the anchor system consists of around 120' of standard proof coil 5/16" chain with around 1000' attached line with a masively oversized claw set on the roller.

We would like to go to 200 feet of high test with perhaps 300 feet of line going to an xyz anchor (mainly becasue Andunge is such a light boat and the appeal of a 13 pound anchor is intriguing) or the heavier super max anchor put out by the same company.  Ideally, I would like to carry these two anchors and nothing else.  It that a foolish dream?

Obvioulsy, an anchor that can anchor in more conditions means we don't have to carry the second, third, or fourth anchors anymore, instead opting for the main anchor and a secondary that can be deployed off the stern, in a 'V' off the bow, or in crappy conditions.

Does anyone have experience with either of these anchors and if we carried both types would we seem covered.

I have lots of prior experience anchoring with the standards (cqr, plow, danfourth, claw, fortress,fisherman) but know nothing of these newcommers.

I would love to be able to have superior holding with less scope and overall weight (duh-as I am sure we all would) as well as having an anchor that can hold in all bottoms.  The manufactuer claims this to be the case but I am leary.  I have read other official reviews of these anchors but would like to know what the real cruisers out there have found out.

Andunge is a 22' Westerly Nomad with around 6000 pounds displacement loaded.  I might add that she is enginless so all anchoring is done under sail or oar power.  Storage for the anchors or the rode is not a problem but we want minimal weight to make room for other provisions.

Thanks a million!!!!

[AdriftAtSea]

Congratulations. :D 

Unfortunately, weight is often key to helping the anchor set properly.  Anchor weight is often an important factor, especially if you manage to pull the anchor free, since a light anchor with large fluke area can often have trouble re-setting. 

If the boat has dragged and has any speed, the large flukes can cause the lighter anchors to "kite" preventing them from having any chance of resetting. This has happened to me with a Danforth, which is why my Danforth is a stern anchor and not a primary. Of course, this may be more of a problem with a light boat with a lot of windage, as my trimaran has, than it would with Andunge.

The next generation anchors are pretty good.  I use a 15 kg Rocna as the primary anchor on my boat, and I've found it is pretty good under most conditions.  You can see more about them at their website.

I am currently using 75' of 5/16" G40 high-test chain and 200' of 5/8" three-strand nylon rode. 

What is the draft on your boat??   While the Pacific does have some deep anchorages, do you really need 500' of rode?  At 5:1 you could be anchoring in water 100' deep.

BTW, I would highly recommend carrying at least three anchors if you're cruising long-term.  Chances are good that at some point you're going to have to abandon one, if only temporarily, for some reason. 

I'd recommend the Rocna, Buegel, Spade or Manson Supreme over the XYZ or Super Max, since these will also stow on an anchor roller much more readily than the larger fluke/blade designs fo rhe XYZ or Super Max.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to PM me...  I hope this helps.

[maxiSwede]

Congratulations!!!   I am so happ y for you, now take care of each other.

Re your question, i coukd only second what AdriftatSea said in the previous post.

Good Luck to you, might see you on the water some day...

[Zen]

Interesting. I am giving some thought now to anchors. I have been almost always dock to dock. As I think now about being out more. I am looking at anchors. Currently I have a Danforth. I have a buy on a 16.5 (real) Bruce, which I am told is good for this area or as a second anchor. I'm thinking of getting that as my stern cruising anchor and later going for the Rocna, ( or the like) as a prime.  The lil promo film seems impressive. I figure, with those 2 and the Danforth (or 2) as a spare I should be good. There is a guy at the Marine flea market, who I brought a sea anchor from said, "I carry 6 anchors when i go to Hawaii ( same size boat as mine). At flea market prices, it its worth it."  He was not selling one just telling me about the ones next to him for sale. Showed me the difference in Danforths. He said the copies are good paper weights  :D

[CharlieJ]

Some thoughts on Danforths , copies and other anchoring thoughts from a long time cruiser with several years of anchoring out experience..

First, the danforths are great anchors- in their place, which isn't every where. Some of the danforth copies are ALSO good anchors, one of which is the Hooker brand. Both are well made and set properly.

The danforth type with the sliding ring that supposedly allows the anchor to be pulled up easily I will not allow on my boats. As far as I'm concerned they are a fishing boat anchor and worthless on a cruising boat. And unsafe.

BUT

There are limitations to Danforth style anchors- Deep grass is one of them. Shell is another. AND  personally I would NEVER trust my boat to a single Danforth style in a reversing tidal situation. They do not reliably reset.

Let me restate that-

on a reversing current situation, a Danforth DOES NOT RELIABLY RESET!!

If you are using danforth ( lets call them "fluke" style from now on) anchors and the tide is gonna change DO USE two of them- preferably in a Bahama Moor. I've seen fluke style anchors come up with mud wedged into the flukes so they could not flip down, therefore the anchor jsut slid across the bottom with zero chance of setting. I've also seen them come up with an oyster shell or beer can with the same results.

On the other hand they are terrific anchors in sand or a sand mud bottom. I've actually laid over night to a 4 pounder  we had out to stop a swing. The wind shifted and we were riding to the tiny anchor ( the main one was still set) I almost had to abandon that anchor cause it was set so well..

Plow style anchors such as the CQR's and other fluke styles as the Bruce and Claw, or the unfortunately not available any longer, Northill will reset, usually reliably, but not always. If I had to choose a single anchor to lie to it would be one of those. I have no experience with the newer generation of anchors so can't speak for them.

The Northill is also not a good anchor to lie to single in a reversing current. It has a fluke that sticks up above the bottom that the rode can wrap around and pull the anchor when the pull switches. It IS however an excellent anchor in heavy grass , oyster shell reefs, or rocky bottoms.

Aboard our boat, and aboard my trimaran, which I lived aboard for 3 years and cruised from Annaoplis to the keys and back , and over to the Texas coast  we carry different styles, for different situations. If it's nice thick mud or good sand, use any of them. If it's grass, or shell, or rocky, switch to another style. Sometimes we had to try one or two before we found one that would hold.

On the trimaran we went the full last year of cruising without ever touching a dock- ALWAYS on our own anchors.

You simply cannot rely on a single type of anchor to hold everywhere. If you are gonna travel, bit e the bullet and get a variety, good chain and rode and learn to use them. And carry several- cause you just may have to abandon one somewhere sometime at 0200 getting the heck outta dodge!! I had to cut and run one time. We were able to go back the next day and get the anchor- but at the time it wasn't real important.

Oh - and the right size is one that is JUST lighter than you can haul back off the bottom ;D

On Tehani our main anchor is a 22 pound Claw with 75 feet of G4 1/4 inch chain, backed up with 200 feet of 1/2 nylon. That's about the largest anchor Laura can haul back by herself. If she could do more, I'd go up one more size ;D We also carry a Northill and 2 different sizes of Danforths- a Hi tensile 12 and  that 4 pounder, each with appropriate rodes.

Good solid anchors, with good solid rodes, and the knowledge to use them, are the very best hull insurance money you'll ever spend.

[skylark]

I think the best low cost anchor is the Delta, based on reviews and chatter on the net.  However I do not have one, I have a 35lb CQR, a 22lb Claw and two 15?lb Danforth copies.  There may be another anchor buried in there somewhere too.  I have at least two sets of 150' rodes spliced to 50' 1/4 high strength chain and also one or two extra rodes.  There is also some misc chain lengths as well.  This is for a 28 foot Tanzer.

Usually I use the claw because the CQR is hard to haul in.  It would be nice to have one of the new generation anchor$, maybe I will get one eventually.

A good anchor really helps you to sleep well.

[AdriftAtSea]

I would agree that the Danforth isn't really a good choice if the wind or tide is going to shift.  I have a 14 lb. Danforth that came with the boat, and I use it as a stern or kedge anchor.  It is on 6" of 1/4" chain and 100"  of 1/2" nylon, where the primary is on 75' of 5/16" G4 and 200' of 5/8" nylon. 

I agree that having a few different types of anchors makes far more sense than having several anchors of the same type.  Think about it, if a 10 lb. Danforth doesnt' set, it isn't all that likely that  22 lb. version will set either. 

For my third anchor, I am planning on getting a 22 lb. Delta Fastset.  It will be on 30' of 5/16" G4 chain with 150' of 5/8" nylon for a rode.  IMHO, it is a good compromise between weight and holding ability.  The main problem I see with having a 22 lb. Delta on-board is stowing it.  It doesn't collapse or disassemble. 

One other point I'd make is that a properly sized primary anchor should hold you even in fairly heavy conditions.  If you're having to resort to tandem anchoring more than 10% of the time, you need to get bigger anchors. 

It always amazes me at how people will spend thousands on the toys for their boats, but skimp on what is probably one of the most important things IMHO.  Ground tackle, relatively speaking, isn't all the expensive an investment.  A 22 lb. Delta, brand new is about $155 at defender.com.  The rode, 30' of G-4 High-test chain and 170' of 5/8" three-strand nylon is only $200 or so.  The swivel is another $35.  So for $400, you can have a good night's sleep and cheap insurance against dragging.

[Auspicious]

I'm a huge fan of new generation anchors. I have a Rocna (big fan) and have personal experience with Spade (big fan). Compared to the other anchors I have used (CQR, Delta, Danforth, Fortress, and Bruce) there is really no comparison. YMMV, and my opinions are my own.

[Captain Smollett]

If you're having to resort to tandem anchoring more than 10% of the time, you need to get bigger anchors. 

I have to disagree with this statement on its face.  Perhaps it is a matter of philosophy, but I don't necessarily think it is a matter of "resorting" to more than one anchor.

Seamanship is about prudence in solving problems, not following formulae in books.  If I can get the same security for my boat with two or even three, but they are small enough that other members of my crew can heave them aboard, what's the difference?

Two (Bahamian Moor) or Three (star) anchors may take longer to set and recover but are just as secure and can be MUCH lighter than one big honking anchor that is hard to handle.  Plus, you have FAR less swinging room requirement which can be a huge plus in a crowded or small anchorage.

All that said, I 100% agee with CJ with the notion "just lighter than the biggest you can handle," but even then, there will be times that two (or three) anchors will be needed that have nothing to do with the primary being too small.  And depending upon where you are cruising, that could be 100% of the time.

My two cents on that.

Laura, you mentioned a desire for using less scope.  Even the new anchors require 'proper' scope to set and hold properly from everything that I've read, though 'proper' seems to be trending toward 5:1 (with chain+nylon) these days, at least in moderate conditions.  If swinging room is the motivation to 'reduce scope,' I'd probably use muliple anchors with proper total scope rather than shortening scope on a single no matter what wiz-bang new hot shot anchor it is.  But that's just me and of course, each situation is different.

As always, YMMV, and fair winds.

--John