Autohelms, Tiller Pilots, electronic self steering

[CharlieJ]

Also broad sterned boats.  Our last boat had a wide stern, relatively flat across, with a reverse transom. Running down wind she'd sashay from one side to another like fat dowager

Tehani on the other hand is quite fine below aft and doesn't have a transom in the water, and she runs a whole lot straighter, with much less helm action

[Leroy - Gulf 29]

Lynx,

How do you like the S1 wheel pilot?  I'm debating on that for the Gulf.  Durn those things are pricey!

CJ

Tehani on the other hand is quite fine below aft and doesn't have a transom in the water, and she runs a whole lot straighter, with much less helm action

When she sails by, all the guys turn and watch and say "OOOH, nice aft!"   ;D

[Lynx]

S1 - I love it. No other choice for my boat. I do a lot of straight lines, in open, shallow water. Ideal for an auto pilot and for single handing it is a dream come true.

I have put about 200 hrs on it and have had 1 screw come loose and the wheel got so much dried salt spray that I had to take the cover off and wash it down.  I do way to much sailing into seas in winds 15+.

Steers the boat better than me.

When it gets to bad outside and NOBODY is around you can go below and look out every few min's.

[CharlieJ]

[/quote]

When she sails by, all the guys turn and watch and say "OOOH, nice aft!"   ;D
[/quote]

Oh yeah Leroy-



Forgot to mention earlier- we use a Navico TP300. Laura says if she was to ever have another kid she would name it "tiller pilot"
:D

[Frank]

Charlie...hate to agree........but NICE AFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frank]

Just flew in...only 2 of us on the flight. Jubilee weathered well...1st night aboard tonight!! Bottom paint tomorrow

[AdriftAtSea]

Frank-

I envy you... ;)  Fair winds to you. :)

[Amgine]

Well, not quite, but for all intents and purposes it's no longer able to deal with much wind at all.

I will freely admit I had too much sail for the conditions. I was expecting 20kt, so had the 2nd reef in, and the 100%. What I got was 30kt winds, and was heeled over 40+ degrees for a couple hours, before I got out of the channel. And, because it was getting out of the river, I had a nasty stretch of steep, quick seas getting off Robert's Bank.

And, in the midst of this, when I needed to go to the mast and get the jib luff tight, the tiller pilot got over-powered and seemed to jam cranked all the way in. I had to kick the darn thing to get it off the tiller pin.

Today I managed to take it apart and found the power drive belt was off its gears, but even after it was put back in place there's enough slack in it that it slips in any gust..

Now, I haven't had a chance to talk with Raymarine yet, but I have no idea if this would be covered under warranty (it's only 9 months old, bought to replace a 15 yo autohelm.) Frankly I was so pissed at the time I nearly threw it overboard. If they don't fix it, well, I'll be even more angry than I was after the darn thing nearly killed me (*you* ever had an uncontrolled jibe in 30 kts in a narrow shipping channel?)

I'm really annoyed about this because I checked with several shops about sizing the tiller pilot to the boat, and everyone reassured me the ST1000 was more than enough for my 25' boat.

And I'm ordering the windvane within the hour, I hope.

[Oldrig]

Amgine:

I'm afraid that the ST1000, while it is supposed to be strong enough for a 25-foot sailboat, is really too light for Alberg-designed, heavy-displacement 25-footers like our 25Ds. Based on the experience of other 25D owners, I ordered the ST2000.

Still, I'd be nervous about depending on it in 30-kt. winds in a shipping channel.

Your best bet is probably a windvane.

Good Luck!

--Joe

[Frank]

 I have had both ST1000 and 2000 autohelms. They are easy to use and work relatively well. I found that extreme care must be taken to balance the helm before setting them. I've screwed both up by not balancing and having way too much weather helm as the wind built up. When you take one apart to fix and see the tiny gears and mini belt...you see why balance is so important. Although I've never had one, in heavy air...I feel a vane is really the only answer.

[Marc]

I do plan on purchasing the ST1000 but here is a very stupid question, how do you balance a boat?  My rstoration is about 75% complete, and I think I need to know these things.  Thank you, Marc

[Frank]

"set the sails so there is very little weather helm". Reef the main if needed in stronger winds.

[Amgine]

Okay, I'm temporarily back ashore, and have had just enough of the wilder conditions! Well, no, that's not true, but a sailor can dream of reasonable weather, righ?

So, a few more details. The choice was to motor into the wind downstream and get about 2 kts over the ground, or try to sail into the wind once we got to the turn. I'd already made the choice to sail 12 miles up stream, and had laid out the 100% jib and put a double reef in the main. That was a bad choice - I should have set the storm jib up, but the forecast hadn't indicated the wind I ended up experiencing.

The channel of the south arm of the Fraser River has a very long breakwater on the north edge of the channel, about 12 miles if I recall correctly. To the south the water spreads over Robert's Bank, a notoriously nasty stretch of shallow water, but there are lines of pilings a mile or so south of the channel to break up the waves for a couple of miles out from shore. Strictly speaking it's okay to sail in the channel so long as you follow the rules of the road, but you also have to keep in mind that almost *everything* is constrained to use the channel - unless your draft is measured in inches. Miles of beach appear at every low tide on Roberts Bank.

With the 100% jib plus the double-reefed main I was over-powered, and heeling far too much. This resulted in not being able to stay on the proper side of the channel, but I was actually keeping an eye out for other traffic and had anything been approaching I would have gotten out of their way as safely as possible - if necessary turning to run downwind.

End of the explanation.

Now, today I had a *different* epiphany about balancing the boat for the much-weakened ST1000. Coming out of Porlier Pass I met the predicted 20 kt winds, a bit more E than SE but at least they got the speed right. I was feeling lazy, on my way back with a time limit, but I should have had only 24 miles to go, so I set my rather fullsome 110% jib, and nothing else. This was just about the perfect amount of sail area, maybe just a bit shy of what the boat could have stood up to but it made for very simple sail handling.

But with all the sail area forward, and the sail a bit blown out to begin with, it gave the helm a sick, dead feel even though the boat was heeling 15-20. *That* is a truly balanced helm, with the boat just barely tending to head up. And, in its feeble state, the ST1000 was able to manage the steering with only the occasional screech as the belt slipped.

I've sailed several boats which had pretty pathetic feedback in the tiller, and I never liked them. I *really* didn't like how this felt, mostly because the Cape Dory 25D is very lively and responsive to the tiller if a bit more positive of feedback. But, now that I've experienced this, and seen how the tiller pilot was able to manage it, I can certainly see how sail adjustments could be used to purposely get this very neutral situation. For my boat it's clearly going to mean using that third or second reef pretty regularly, and bigger headsails than I might prefer.

I can't wait to try some of these ideas with the self-steering.

[s/v Faith]

I do plan on purchasing the ST1000 but here is a very stupid question, how do you balance a boat?  My rstoration is about 75% complete, and I think I need to know these things.  Thank you, Marc

I would recommend you save your money.

  I have an ST200, that I bought with the boat.  I have used it, I have even used it setup to interface with the GPS and steer to waypoints.  I prefer to either heave too, or balance the boat if I have to leave the helm when singlehanding and if sailing with crew I would rather they steer and look out then set the autohelm.

We did not use it one time on our trip.  Not even on passages.  I still carry it on board, but removed the installed cable connection and have it rigged to just plug into a lighter plug if and when I ever use it again.

[Oldrig]

I, too, have misgivings about sailing with my autopilot, even though the wiring was installed flawlessly by our own Dan, aka "Adriftatsea."

I primarily use mine for motoring and for holding the boat into the wind while I raise or lower the mainsail. It's wired for sailing to GPS waypoints, but, again, I think I'll only use it as such while under power. The winds around here are usually too gusty to leave the tiller unwatched for prolonged periods of time.

Amgine, as for sail balance: The more I sail my 25D, the more I appreciate the importance of reefing the mainsail early (15kts for first reef). I now primarily use a 130 roller-furled genny, which I often reef/furl to about 110 percent.

On Sunday we had gusts of up to 35 knots, along with heavy chop (typical for Buzzards Bay). I tucked in both reefs while on the mooring and rolled the genny to about 100 percent, and was able to enjoy a rigorous but comfortable sail. When the wind velocity diminished, I'd roll out more headsail. When it picked up--as it inevitably did near the end of the day--I furled it down to slightly less than 100 percent. Doing so kept weather helm to a minimum, except when tearing downwind and surfing down the waves.

Sailing downwind, I didn't dare let go of the tiller, and noticed that my GPS recorded a maximum speed of 7.4 knots. I don't think I could really believe that reading, but it's pretty exciting for a heavy, short-waterline boat like a 25D.

--Joe

[AdriftAtSea]

Again, I'd point out that anyone using a tiller pilot, especially one with integrated controls, like the ST1000/2000, getting a splash cover sleeve made will greatly extend its lifespan.

Sunday was an amazing day of sailing on Buzzards Bay... I was down in Cuttyhunk for the Fourth of July and we came up to South Dartmouth in a nice run with speeds of over 9 knots on a friends catamaran. :)

[Gus]

This is a good read. I order the ST2000 mostly because I sail alone, and raising or lowering sails alone its a PITA. Also a friend in a Mac 26 showed me the auto-tack, and works pretty sweet IMO. It must be in back-order from Defender, I got everything I order but the auto-pilot.

Gus

[newt]

Amgine- Welcome to the ying and yang of sailing grasshopper. May your journey be fruitful :)

[Amgine]

Almost 800 nm under the keel since then, actually!

The ST1000 is able to manage motoring in flat calms, and sailing in lighter going from beam reach down. Getting the right sail balance has been critical for the autopilot to work in its weakened state. But during the largest part of the summer cruise I had 'crew' who is prone to mal de mer, and deals with it best by steering, so I had no worries about the autopilot. I still plan on bringing it in, but the season isn't over yet and I'm too busy to get it fixed!

Actually, at the moment the boat is moored back up the Fraser River, but I'm hopeful I'll be setting out early next week. May be heading back up to the Broughtons for another looksee at a piece of land.

[newt]

Land? A mooring buoy maybe- the only thing land is good for is raising veges. I am sorry about the seasickness. I am having a lively discussion on the merits of various cures on Cruising Forum.
BTW- I did get out some, but never North of Sucia so I didn't bother you. She is looking tons better.