Bilge Pumps, employment, care and feeding.

[skylark]

Do you have a lot of problems with water in the bilge?

I don't have an electric bilge pump, just a big manual bilge pump for emergencies.  If there is water in the bilge I sponge it out into a pail.  My boat is pretty dry, in fact the bilge is usually dry except when it is on the hard on its trailer. However if you get a lot of water on board, I can see the need for an electric bilge pump.

I would not drill another hole in the hull.  If you can find a way to use the anchor locker drain without the anchor locker draining into the bilge, that would be the way to go. 

[AdriftAtSea]

A hull liner is a fiberglass molded piece that is attached to the interior of the hull, often used as method of stiffening the boat and will often have the furniture molded into it.... Galley counter, settees, etc.  However, if it is a fairly complete one, it will generally cover the entire interior, meaning that you have to drill through both it and the hull, and there may or may not be a gap between the two.  If there is a gap between the two, the liner either has to be cut away a bit, so that the through-hull can screw down onto just the hull or the gap has to be filled so that the airspace doesn't compress and compromise the throughull fit.

However, it did have a rather complete hull liner, which might complicate the installation a bit.

How would this complicate the installation? I know so little about sailboats and have found almost no information on the Starwind.

[Gus]

I used to have an electric bilge pump, but I took out of the boat. After fixing the thru-hull rudder post, and re-bedding all the hardware on deck (twice!), the boat is dry as a bone, but I do have a manual bilge pump stored in a locker with long hoses for an emergency. I think Starwind bought the molds from Chrysler when it went belly up to build their boats, so they are probably very similar.

Edit: if your Starwind its the same as my Chysler 22, you probably have liner all over the hull, even under the cockpit, but not in the transom. The access to the transom can be tricky if you have flotation foam in the cockpit lockers like I do (this would be much easier to explain with a picture)

[Grime]

The requirement at the marina in Port Lavaca is to have a bilge pump working when in the slip so that the marina manger doesn't happen to have one sink on him. So only a manual pump would be out.  My truck is not big enough to haul out after each sail. My RV is but at the prices of gas and 5 miles to the gallon we would only get out about once a year.

The anchor locker has a through hull fitting to drain. I could use it and seal the hole that is there for the drain.  So far I have not seen any flotation foam.

The one area that the pump was sitting in there is easy access to the hull but it looks to low to put a through hull fitting. Down below one of the settee seats. I'll have to do some more checking to see if I can run it aft and exit somewhere just inside the cockpit area. Would be somewhat of a run for the pipe. Would have to follow the wiring route.

Would like to see one that has a working bilge pump. That would sure answer a lot of question and worries.

Think what I'll do is take pictures of everything, build a photo album and post the link for looks and thoughts. I'll have to wait until the 40+ MPH wind slows down some and I can pull the tarp off.

Thanks guys
David

[s/v Faith]

David,

 

Would like to see one that has a working bilge pump. That would sure answer a lot of question and worries.

  I merged this into the 'Bilge Pumps, employment, care and feeding.' thread.  There is  lots of good info to think about, I would recommend backing up and reading the thread from page 1.  If you don't find what you are looking for, or if a picture would still be helpful let me know and I will take one for you... (kinda wonder what my bilge looks like about now anyways...)  :)

[Grime]

Faith

Would like to see one that has a working bilge pump. That would sure answer a lot of question and worries.

What I meant was that I would like to see another Starwind 22 and their setup. Some times typing I don't explain myself very well.


David

[s/v Faith]

Anyone use a blige pump cycle counter? 

 

[AdriftAtSea]

I've installed quite a few of them.  My preferred bilge pump setup is to have two electric bilge pumps and at least one big manual bilge pump.   

The first bilge pump is a "maintenance" pump and is very small with a small diameter hose.  It is mounted as low in the bilge as possible and meant to keep the boat dry of the typical day-to-day leaks, like the stuffing box, condensation, etc. This pump is on a bilge pump counter.  The reason for the small hose diameter is to limit the amount of water that back flushes when the pump shuts down.

The second bilge pump is as high a capacity pump as the boat owner is willing to buy. . It is mounted with its float switch an inch or two higher than the "maintenance" pump.  This pump is connected to a high water alarm as well.  This pump is intended to de-water the boat, and to keep the boat from actually sinking in the event of a major leak.

BTW, smaller boats require bigger bilge pumps than larger boats, since they have much less safety margin before sinking.  Most bilge pumps do not pump anywhere close to their nominal rated capacity, which is for zero head and no resistance from a hose.  Diaphragm-based bilge pumps generate far more pressure and can deal with large head heights better than impeller-based pumps. Most self-contained bilge pumps with an integrated float switch are impeller-based pumps.

The manual bilge pump should be as large as possible and mounted where it can be operated from the cockpit.  Ideally, you'd have two of them, with one operable from the cockpit and one operable from down below. :)

[Marc]

I have'nt done it yet but I'm going to install two Rule 800 bilge pumps with one on an automatic float switch.  The reson for two is easy,  port and starboard when the boat heels I'll still be able to discharge water.  What do you guys think?  good idea or not.  BTW i"m using PEX tubing that will be attached to the pums and going basically 4-5' out to the area below my rubfail midships to a thu hull 90.  It is still only 11 degrees here so I STILL can't get in the boat.  Iowa winter sucks.  Marc

[s/v Faith]

I have'nt done it yet but I'm going to install two Rule 800 bilge pumps with one on an automatic float switch.  The reson for two is easy,  port and starboard when the boat heels I'll still be able to discharge water.  What do you guys think?  good idea or not.  BTW i"m using PEX tubing that will be attached to the pums and going basically 4-5' out to the area below my rubfail midships to a thu hull 90.  It is still only 11 degrees here so I STILL can't get in the boat.  Iowa winter sucks.  Marc

  Sounds like a good plan.  Keep them on separate switches and route the wires individually and you have a back up, and pumps that work on both tacks... good idea.

[matt195583]

A very interesting thread. shortly after purchasing my boat i went in search of the bilge pump. after searching the bilge and all lower parts I was at a loss as to where my pump was, so I went and bought a rule 2000gph pump + a rule float switch. A few days later i was rumaging through the starboard cockpit locker and found a bag ..... more of a sack really. curiosity getting the better of me i took a peek inside and what do i see. A rule 200 gph pump with a hose on it and about 5ft of electrical cable wired to the pump.  ???
       I have installed the 2000gph pump and float switch as low as possible in the bilge on the port side and I intend to mount a manual pump in the cockpit also. Another thing that has got me wondering at the common sense of the PO's is the six thru hulls all below the water line there is 2 for the cockpit drains (cant help that) there is an inlet and outlet for the head (both thru hulls and head will be removed) there is one for the sink drain (also to be removed) and one random thruhull in a port side locker that seems to have no conceivable purpose. The metal seacocks on the cockpit drains a seized, so i will replace them sooner rather then later. although I'm not sure whether to use metal or PVC for the replacements. all other thru hulls will be glassed over  :) .
      while I have installed the pump and switch I appear to have the same issue as Grime. My cabin liner is a royal pain in the behind I am still toying with a few ideas as to where the 1" thru hull will be fitted and where to route the hose so it will be safe from being interfered with . I will place the thruhull as close to the bump strip as i can.
       Another way to reduce flow of water into you boat is to CLOSE THE SLIDING HATCH. as i found out this weekend when i went out to work on my boat  and found a few inches of rain water in the bilge  >:( . Working time became cleanup time .

[CharlieJ]

I also glassed over all openings below the water line in Tehani. There were 7 when I started.

I originally brought the deck drains out just above the water line, with plastic through hulls. This last haulout we replaced those with bronze through hulls and bromze valves. They aren't "seacocks" in the true sense of the word, but they aren't "gate valves" either- they are simply straight valves so the openings can be closed off. They operate exactly like a seacock does- half turn to close. Remember- these are above waterline.

My bilge pump through hull exits into the cockpit, directly over one of the cockpit drain holes. Since we have an outboard powered boat, there is never any oil in the bilge water, so no mess in the cockpit.

My manual pump, a Whale Gusher 10, exits into the outboard well, also above waterline.

[CharlieJ]

Ok- some pictures I took today. This is my manual bilge pump setup and the one shot which shows the electric pump outlet in the cockpit, plus the deck drain valving I spoke of

First shot is the manual pump's cover in the cockpit.



Second is the cover open



and third is the pump itself mounted inside a cockpit locker.



next picture is the electric pump's thru hull in the cockpit.



and the final picture is the deck drain valving installed last haul out- it's pretty much alike on both sides, except the port side has an anchor rode locker drain tee-d into it

[Tim]

Where are your deck drains located Charlie that you can T your anchor rode locker to it?

[CharlieJ]

Main anchor rode is in the bow. I added a secondary rode locker under the cockpit floor. We carry three hundred feet of line in there in two separate sections.

I also added a second 19 gallon water tank under there, UNDER the anchor rode storage- it was totally dead space.

This picture shows the first way we used i. We no longer stow the anchor there. Instead we have the second 100 foot line coiled in the center. I don't have any pictures showing current setup though. But this shows the space. The bladder tank is under that space.

[Tim]

So the drain is for your rear locker?

[matt195583]

CharlieJ you a are genius, you have answered my question with out me having to ask it . I will follow you lead and fit my bilge thruhull the same as yours . Right above my cock pit drain ..... although my cockpit drains are thruhull fittings mounted into the cockpit floor . I will also endeavor to do some glass work and flush mount them along with moving the exit points to an above waterline place .

charlie do you get any water coming into your cockpit when heeling hard ?

[CharlieJ]

Tim- yes, for the locker under the cockpit.

Matt- yes, we get a bit of back flow when heeling hard or when running hard off the wind. Not enough to bother with, but some. We also get some backwash when under power and have too much throttle- it starts to sink the stern into the quarter wave, which tells us we are wasting engine power ;D Because the boat AIN'T gonna move any faster..

But the new anchor locker has a raised section, which leaves a small well around the rudder head, and that's the only place where water goes, so feet don't get wet.

Tehani had really wimpy cockpit drains- couple of 5/8  hoses with a crimp in  each one. I took those out, built some new drains from 1 5/8 patterns ( I glassed 'em up), and installed out the engine well.

I had pictures all set, but it told me the "upload folder was full". I have to go out of town in a few minutes, so don't have time to fool with it this morning, but I'll post some cockpit drain pics later in the week.

[matt195583]

that would be very much appreciated charlie. both my drains are 1 inch , I just dont like the way they are fitted to the cockpit.

[CharlieJ]

Ok- here we go. Bear in mind that our boat has a engine well and long overhangs, so things will probably need to be changed for yours. But you can see the ideas anyway

I used some grey PVC electrical ells as molds. Wrapped plastic around them tightly as a release means and laid up a thin layer of glass on them. When that cured I slit the glass and popped the ells out, superglued the cut edge back together then laid up more glass until I had a 1/4 inch (roughly) layup.





Then I cut larger openings where the old drains were and glassed (heavily) the new ones in place-

Openings in rear corners of cockpit



Pipes running through engine well



Drains exiting hull, before glassing



Outside of hull with faired and filled drains- ready  for final sanding.



You can see the inside in one of the previous posts and the end result on the outside in  this picture of her on the trailer the day we launched. Oh, and you can also see the through hull for the deck drain- right at the water line. That was the old plastic one- it's now bronze