Sheet to Tiller self steering

[Zen]

http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml

[CharlieJ]

Ok, so I'm putting together the stuff so we can set up sheet to tiller steering on Tehani. 

Line-check- got some.

Small blocks- check- got some.

Surgical tubing- nope- no gots.

Simple- just run to town and buy some surgical tubing, right?

WRONG!!!

I've been to drug stores, lumber yards, Lowes, Walmart, tackle shops, welding supply shops all to no avail. My marine wholesaler doesn't have it, nor does WEST Marine nor BOAT U/S.

SO wherenthe heck do I buy 4 feet of 1/4 OD surgical tubing????

[Zen]

How about @ a medical or hospital supply

[US33155]

I'm guessing that you want surgical tubing because it is strefchy, not because it's tubular...  Can you substitute bungy cord?

[Captain Smollett]

Yes.  I use a bungy cord. But the surgical tubing is recommended due to superior resistance to decay by sunlight.  So, a bungy cord won't last as long.

[CharlieJ]

There is a major difference in the stretch characteristics of bungee vs surgical tubing. Biungee has what is referred to as "non-linear" stretch. It doesn't stretch evenly

Surgical tubing has been referred to as having "linear" stretch caracteristics- it stretches evenly and has no memory- when stretched and relaxed it returns to it's original length. This is LATEX tubing. Silicone tubing doesn't have that memory- when stretched it may return ALMOST to it's original length, but not quite. And the next time it may stay a bit longer. Not good.

So the preferred stuff is latex surgical tubing. Apparently from those I've talked to, black holds up slightly better than the amber, but the amber canbe rubbed with sun block (no joke) to extend it's life.

Part of this I picked up from reading and part of it I discovered from using the surgical stuff on hawaian slings and sea lances.


Carry spare tubing anyway :)

[AllAboutMe]

Charlie,
This was the first listing from a Google search. There were more. Scuba/Dive shops may have it in stock.
Larry Wilson
Richmond,Va.

http://www.reefscuba.com/surgical_tubing.htm

[Captain Smollett]

There is a major difference in the stretch characteristics of bungee vs surgical tubing. Biungee has what is referred to as "non-linear" stretch. It doesn't stretch evenly

Technically, nothing stretches 'evenly' if elongated enough.  Said another way, everything has a finite true Hooke's Law regime.

I don't think with sheet to tiller steering we are getting too far into the non-linear regime.  I use a bungy (sp??) cord for my STT arrangment, and it works.  Maybe not as well.  But there is certainly nothing wrong with using it this way in the case of either (a) just starting out and you don't have all the materials or (b) an emergency.  ;)

All I'm saying is don't let not being able to find surgical tubing right away delay your trying sheet-to-tiller steering methods.

[CharlieJ]

Stumbled onto a whole roll of the stuff in the back shelves of our ACE Hardware. THEY didn't know they had it :)

So I have some to play with now. I'll let folks know how it goes when I get a chance to try it.

[hearsejr]

 can you email me the directions so I can see if it would be workable on my South Coast 22?
I want to try and build a copy of the wind vane like Robert Grahm used on the DOVE....it just looked simple enough to build and repair while cruising along.
thanks,
Bill

[CharlieJ]

try these links-

http://www.solopublications.com/sailariq.htm

http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml

http://www.todspages.net/SSa-SelfSteering.html

Also, here's a link to a forum devoted to vane steering-

http://cruisenews.net/cgi-bin/windvane/windvane.pl

[hearsejr]

 KEWL thanks.
Bill

[newt]

Self Steering- necessary for every blue water navigation (or so it looks to me) I have experimented with sheet to tiller and I think I can do that now on my little Compac. Question- has anyone done sheet to wheel? Is it as effective as a complicated but good Windvane (Monitor etc...)?
I'm looking to go up in size a little when I go blue water, and wheel steering seems to be very popular....

[Captain Smollett]

wheel steering seems to be very popular....

Not in general for the 'go small, go now' crowd.

Wheel steering adds complexity and points of failure.  Lots of arguments against it, especially on a smaller boat.

But, to your original question.  One way to use sheet-to steering on a wheel steered boat would be to ship the emergency tiller (you'd have one, right?), and rig the steering lines to that. 

Another (more complex?) way: tie steering lines to whatever the steering lines from the windvane would be connected to on your particular steering setup.

I am just guessing, but I cannot imagine tying the steering lines directly to any point on the wheel would work (and you'd have to reverse the lines from the way the sheet-to-tiller diagrams are drawn).

[TJim]

I've not had a sailboat with a wheel on it but many of my friends have and I've been the driver on quite a few wheel boats.  All of my sail boats have had tiller so I'm not sure how much of what I have to say is based on personnel experience ingrained into my system and how much is unbiased.  That being said, wheels always seem backwards to me and I have never been able just automatically steer one.  They always seem to either under steer or over steer where a tiller that is tied directly to a rudder post always seem to be normal or the same after a a few minutes of steering them.  It's obvious that there are more places and situations that can give you a problem with a wheel, it's simpler to install a windvane to a tiller.  Tillers meet KISS principals, wheels don't.  The only advantage I can see to a wheel over a tiller is that having people in the cockpit doesn't interfer with the wheel and having a load of people in the cockpit with a tiller can get to be an out and out pain.  I would never have a wheel on my boat.

[TJim]

I'm posting this link to our Triton maintainance & improvement site.  It contains a lot of information which has been accumulated over the last 45 years on a lot of subjects.  I was reading (can't sleep) thru some of the old posts here when I sumbled on to the mast stepping discussions and was reminded of a series of pictures that I had posted on the Triton site showing how to step a mast using two buddy boats.  The only thing I might add would be use spinnaker halyards as they turn and don't bind and yes you can step a keel stepped mast using this system, you just have to get your 4-1 purchase high enough (extra 6 ft) b4 you start.  Right under the spreaders has always worked for me and I have done it dozens of times.  Until just recently it was the only way sailboats on the GSL had to get their sticks up and down. We have about
400 sailboats.

WWW.tritonclass.org/mir/mirindex.htm

[sailorflo]

Just too add my two bits, Ive owned tiller and both a reverse wheel and standered wheel. with the tiller I always had to rig something to it to leave the helm witch was a pain when going up on the fordeck to hank on the jib or to do anything away from the helm, With both wheels it was just a matter of setting the sails right and locking the wheel. In average winds I'm able to leave the helm for extended periods of time, Remember that cruzin is not about the speed but being comfortable. I enjoy both tiller and wheel steering but if I had to choose it would be wheel steering.not only can I stand and steer but the pedestal gives me an anchor point to hold on to while at the helm, Boats are like life everything is a compromise. ;D

[TJim]

It takes about2 minutes to have my windvane driving my tiller and I know it drives better than locking the wheel down, in fact it's the best driver I've ever rode with.....

[Captain Smollett]

Just too add my two bits, Ive owned tiller and both a reverse wheel and standered wheel. with the tiller I always had to rig something to it to leave the helm witch was a pain when going up on the fordeck to hank on the jib or to do anything away from the helm, With both wheels it was just a matter of setting the sails right and locking the wheel. In average winds I'm able to leave the helm for extended periods of time,

Flo,  unless you are talking about these different steering systems on the same boat, I wonder how much of the difference you observed is boat specific - yaw resistance, tracking ability, rig balance, etc. 

If different boats, there was a lot more different than just the steering "linkage" that would effect you being able to leave the helm for a bit.

[vinegarj]

my dos centavos....
first, my disclosure:  i have wheel steering.  all things being equal, i'd prefer a tiller.  but it's what i've got and i've grown to semi-appreciate the wheel.  it is more subject to failure.  however, it's a very simple system and the risk of failure can be greatly reduced by regular, common sense maintenance.   also, to some extent, it provides steering redundancy as you've got an emergency tiller for backup.
as noted above, i too have found that a boat with a wheel seems to hold its course better.....there is no logic to this, but putting the brake on the wheel is much more course friendly than tying off a tiller.   however, sheet-to-tiller steering is way more efficient/effective.  my luck with sheet-to-wheel steering has been mixed a best.
one thing that the wheel is nice for is singlehanding maneuvers like sailing up to your mooring or parking in a slip...a little brake on the wheel and you can head forward and know that the boat is going to pretty much stay on course.  but again, all things considered, i'd prefer a tiller.