Sheet to Tiller self steering

[ntica]

cpt. smollet. Yes I've checked the other threads. and the reason is... Rob at steerman contacted me the other day. he'd read an ad I put in a while ago, about second hand Aries, I wanted to buy.
He sead he may sponsor me with his selfsteer :o (belive it or not!)
sure I'm glad as... (I told you about my bad luck was gone) this is like winning a lottery ;)
I have future plans to sail the Jester challenge, so he may see this as a good promotion. He seem like a nice guy.
What are your comments, for and against the selfsteer. To me it looks brilliant. purhapse I'm to blind to see ???

[Captain Smollett]

What are your comments, for and against the selfsteer. To me it looks brilliant. purhapse I'm to blind to see ???

Since you asked...,   ;)

*IF*

(1) It's free

(2) You are willing to make permanent modifications to your boat

and

(3) You are willing to be a guinea pig for a new product

then sure, why not?

We've discussed the "brilliance" earlier in the thread.  It's slick, but it's (a) not new and (b) not HIS idea. 

Finally, make sure you are going into it with open eyes, such as the downwind caveats (headsail ONLY) about what you can expect and that, of course, it's not useful motoring (if that's important to you).

If it were me, I'd be very clear with him up front that after I used it a year or so, I plan to 'review' it on the Internet forums (like here) and will pull no punches....I'd sing the praises of what it does well but not cover up any shortcomings I find.

If he has already done extensive testing and has faith in his product, he should have no problem with that.  Bottom line, it's not a mature product with a known customer base.  I personally don't like being the 'test bench' for new products, especially on my boat.  I'm NOT a 'first adopter.'

[ntica]

cpt. smollet. I hear what you say. I still think its a good oppertunity, I can test it out in my home waters for a long time and it's for free. seem like I have nothing to loose (I hope). And as you mentioned...Make it all clear so no mishaps late on.
I'll get back with more news soon.

[Oldrig]

I still think its a good oppertunity, I can test it out in my home waters for a long time and it's for free. seem like I have nothing to loose (I hope). And as you mentioned...Make it all clear so no mishaps late on.
I'll get back with more news soon.

Ntica:

Yes, I think it's a great chance to try--and review--this new product.

I have written a number of boat and product reviews (mostly when I had a job at a magazine). We always made it perfectly clear that we would write objective reviews of products that we tested. Some companies backed out (or tried to sweeten the pot with promises of advertising), but most understand how it works.

Here's a suggestion:

When you write your review of the product, be sure to mention that it was supplied to you by the manufacturer.

Best of luck, I'd be very interested in your experiences.

--Joe

[ntica]

Hi there good friends and thanks for the advise. I spoke with "him" over the phone today, And he will make me a new one for my 26 foot Celeste (yes I added an E) ;) Those he have avliable today is for 30 foot. and -what he sead- to big for my boat. I will have the selfsteerer in the middle of March 2012. I let you know!

I want to tell you that. There's an Aries for sale in US for 500 USD. needs to rebuild. cheap anyhow, I would have bought it but it's to complicated, the seller don't want any p&P. just cash money when picked up... so I let you in on it. If someone interested let me know and I provide you with adress and phone nr.

[ntica]

Found this on the yube... perfectly explained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNBlrg0VyI&feature=related

[Oldrig]

Found this on the yube... perfectly explained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNBlrg0VyI&feature=related

Thanks for the link! This system might be just what I need: The steering line goes to the end of the boom, which would work better, perhaps, than my system that goes to the mid-boom sheeting system.

I'll have to try it next season.

Best,

--Joe

[ntica]

here's some news about the Steersman. My gear is on progress, gonna be a bit  smaller gear "steersman ventura". And ther're new boats in England who will fit this system 20/22 footers. So things are going to turn for the better for Rob and his steersman. Even some Swedish sailors shown interest.

[ntica]

Update on the "steersman" Rob sent a mail the other day. Because he lost a bigger order he could no longer sponser me with the steersman unit?! Oh yes he could for a price of 750 English Pund...redicoulus I say.
I'm dissapointed of Rob...Glad I didn't put on the hugh Steersman signs on my boat. and many interested people here in Sweden that keep in contact with me, And I've sent broschyrs and info to.

[Captain Smollett]

Update on the "steersman" Rob sent a mail the other day. Because he lost a bigger order he could no longer sponser me with the steersman unit?! Oh yes he could for a price of 750 English Pund...redicoulus I say.
I'm dissapointed of Rob...Glad I didn't put on the hugh Steersman signs on my boat. and many interested people here in Sweden that keep in contact with me, And I've sent broschyrs and info to.

Wow.  Sorry to hear he could not follow through. 

That's one of the problems with being an early adopter on a new product from a new company I guess....

[Captain Smollett]

Here's a technical detail I recently sussed out from Letcher's book.  I've read that relevant sections / chapters many times, and a key piece of the puzzle finally fell into place for me.  Wanted to share in hopes it may save some STT users some frustration.

This is intended for the "understand it" category and as such may not be useful for those that want to simply follow a recipe (and hope it works).

The key bit that is new to me personally is this:  The mechanism of "self steering" is different for sailing above a beam reach than it is for sailing below.  That is, the role played by the STT gear is different in these two extremes.

On the wind, that is above a beam reach, the STT is adjusting the pull on the tiller to changes in wind strength.  Changes of direction with constant wind speed (either wind shifts or boat changes course, say pushed by a wave or some such) are counteracted by the boat's natural weather helm response.

The details of this "weather helm" response arise from the changing turning moment from angle of heel.  If the boat falls off (course shift downwind), the main is present more broadside to the wind and she heels more...increasing weather helm which turns her up (imagine the tiller is "locked").  The opposite happens if she turns too high into the wind and luffs...she heels less, the turning moment is less and since the tiller is "fixed" to compensate for a higher turning moment, she falls off.

Thus, the STT is not really doing much of anything (according to Letcher's explanations, and he's the engineer....) to "self steer" the boat upwind that she could not do with the tiller lashed....PROVIDED the wind speed is constant.

That's what the STT gear does on the wind...it compensates for changes of wind speed which change the amount of tiller input needed to steer straight in puffs and lulls.

Sorry if this seems obvious, but I could not for the life of me reason out how the STT gear could bring her back upwind if she falls off...the directions seemed wrong.  The answer is...the STT does NOT do this.  The STT keeps the tiller "Right" for a changing windspeeds, something that cannot be done by simple lashing of the tiller (ie, the tiller would have to be moved in the windshifts.

The whole mechanics of the problem changes for off the wind.  Off the wind, the sheet tension changes with different courses (sails get blanketed, etc), so that for these courses, the STT gear is doing the active steering even if the windspeed is constant.

Two different mechanisms, two different things compensated for, and thus different "thinking" required to troubleshoot problems if STT does not perform well.

Again, apologies if this is redundant, but it was a lightbulb moment for me...the gear addresses a different problem on different points of sail.   8)

[Frank]

 THANKS for taking the time to lay it out as you have. grog to ya