Education; ASA, US Sailing, and others...

[Lost Lake]

Thanks for the replies, I will get some night sailing in if the weather isn't too rough on Lake Michigan. I have never done night sailing, although I have sailed into docks and buoys (sailing by braille I call it). Of course there were plenty of people there to see me run into things!

My biggest sailing fears are fast approaching storms and going bump in the night with whatever lurks below the water. The whole cold-water-sinking-ship thing should probably scare everyone though.

[Norm]

In terms of biggest fears:
Weather systems behave in a generally logical fashion. 
-In the North, weather moves from West to East.  Look at the Western sky for clues about the near future weather.  I used to watch the Weather channel and try to predict the weather for my immediate area for that day.  In time, I got pretty good at it.  Correlating clouds and temperature changes with weather changes.
-Get a barometer (I have a Casio wristwatch with barometer that is an essential tool for cruising) and learn to correlate the barometer changes to weather changes.
In a little while, you'll see the weather coming and adapt to it before it whacks you by surprise. 

Things that go bump are not more common at night than during the day.  Are you dodging stuff all day while out sailing?  If so, they will be there at night.  We have lobster trap markers to deal with in the North East.  We also have learned how to deal with them in terms of lookout, routes, and dodging.

If you feel safe sailing during the day you should be able to feel safe at night.

I will be interested in hearing about your training cruise.  I head out on a week long one tonight.  Just finished one last week.  Then... a few weeks off for self indulgent sailing on our own boat for fun!

[AdriftAtSea]

If you're planning to be out coastal cruising for any period of time, practice reefing your boat, until you can get your reefs tucked in almost instinctively.  If you can get your mainsail reefed in under three minutes, that is probably as good as you'll need. 

Remember, the best time to reef is when you first think you might need one.  It is always easier to sail a bit undercanvassed, than it is to try and get a reef tucked in after the wind really picks up. 

[KenR]

Before you start, make a list of  things that you feel really uncomfortable doing.

During your training, do them again and again.

Start another list.

[Lost Lake]

Wow, there's some great advice here!  Thanks everyone!! :)

[Norm]

So, tomorrow's the day you start "lessons."

Good luck as in, I hope you have fine shipmates and a variety of conditions.  Tell us the story, OK?

If you feel up to a BVI charter, let me know.  I spent a few years there in that business.

Norm

[newt]

Hi Norm,
Without trying to hijack this thread, could you give me a brief rundown of the charter business in BVI. I want to bareboat this winter, I was thinking of actually renting in Florida and taking a few days up and back with me and my son, then getting the rest of the crew on at San Juan. ... just to give me a bit more time on the boat. I am very comfortable with yachts up to 50' and have lessons and experience offshore and making night landfalls in unknown waters (and a good chart).
What do you think would fit for me?

[Auspicious]

I was thinking of actually renting in Florida and taking a few days up and back with me and my son, then getting the rest of the crew on at San Juan.

I think you'll have trouble finding a mainstream charter company to sign up to that plan. I know that Moorings will approve one-way and round trip charters between the BVI and St. Martin for repeat customers with a good record and solid resume, but that's only one overnight.

Most of the charter companies have "no night sailing" written into their contracts. They are very serious about it.

In the BVI, don't miss White Bay on Jost Van Dyke, Marina Cay, Saba Rock in North Sound of Virgin Gorda, or (if you like a little seclusion) Key Bay on the South side of Peter Island.

sail fast, dave

[Lost Lake]

I'm back!!  ;D

What a great time I had in Ludington, MI sailing on Freedom, a Hunter Legend 37.5. My instructor was Captain Dale Fitch, a very calm and nice man, who never had a bad word for anyone.

I took the three classes with a friend of mine, Ken, who always talked about his sailing adventures, but I came to find out they were all on a 14' sunfish type boat with a single sail. He wasn't quite as ready for these classes as I was.

We arrived on the Badger ferry at 6 pm and Dale met us at the dock. He transported us to Freedom and we put our gear on board and looked around a bit while he called his wife to see if she was up for dinner with the boys from Wisconsin. Luckily she was and I recommended a brewery I had spotted on the way to the boat. Game on, we picked up Carolyn and went to eat.

The brewery in Ludington is an excellent place to eat and have a few wonderful beers. I figured if the first three were good, the next three would be better, and the three after those would be just marvelous! I was right, and after I spent $60 on beer and an appetizer, I was poured into the truck and driven back to Freedom.

The morning came waaaaaay too early, and I downed a few aspirin and met the sunlight. I was in the aft berth, Ken took the front, Dale wisely slept at home. Nothing was said of my night of imbibing and I almost thought I'd get away with my indiscretion, but later that night I would hear Carolyn tell me how I kept saying, "Bring on the storms, I love high winds, we'll have a ball!"

This was Thursday morning, and we prepped Freedom for departure. Weather was forecast to be bad through Sunday (hence my bravado after several ales) but we would sail no matter what. We worked on motoring around, docking with iron wind, and sailed a bit into Lake Michigan with 8 - 10 knot winds. This day went quickly, then it was back to port, secure the sails and boat, and back out for dinner at the yacht club. Dale signed us up for a $7 grill-your-own-steak and they were really wonderful steaks! Two beers later an older gent named George said he was taking out his power boat for a late buzz around the marina. We were welcome to come along, and everyone was gathering their coolers of beverages, but I thought I'd lay low this night, try to make a better impression on my new friends.

Dale dropped us back at Freedom and I walked to take a shower before bed. Rain was forecast and I thought I'd beat the weather. The Marina in Ludington has a fantastic shower and restroom facility, but from Freedom's slip it was a half mile walk. Not bad in nice weather, but a real long way in the rain or when a pile of onion rings is being worked through your system by 10 pints of beer.  :-[

Okay, Friday! Back out to the lake, sun shining (oh, to be a weather man and only need to be right half the time) time to practice 'man overboard'. We threw this poor man windward, leeward, aft, every which way that we could chuck a throwable preserver. Most of the time we had him back on board in less than a minute. We saw something floating in the water and sailed it down to find it was a bottle with a note in it (or at least a wrapper) but lost it before we could find a way to scoop a bottle from the lake. Lots of practice today with tacking and jibing, using proper commands and working as a crew. We learned more systems on the boat like proper use of the stove and head, the ice box, diesel care and troubleshooting, hull repair, just all kinds of things. When we got back we took our Basic Keelboat test and I am happy to say I aced that one!!  :D

Dinner Friday was at a pizza place with more great beer, and then off to another yacht club. (Do all yacht clubs have $1.25 beers?) Lots of laughter and talk, we found out old George just got his stinkpot and it was fun to rib him about when he 'used to sail'. He lamented that after sailing for 60 years, he takes a break for a bit and now he's not a sailor!  :o   I got him once by asking what sails used to be made form back when he sailed.....  All in good fun, and we all had a great time.

I wanted to look around town so while Ken hit the bunk, I walked uptown. The Macker was in town, I had no idea what it was, but learned the Gus Macker was a basketball tournament of sorts for charity. It is a huge event! I walked about 5 miles just looking around town, then a mile back to Freedom so I could get some shuteye.

Saturday, We tested for the Coastal Cruising exam and I passed with a good score. I made a couple clerical errors and a bonehead error too. Then we stocked Freedom with bratwurst (we're from Wisconsin after all) and headed to Pentwater. The forecast was to be 2 - 4 foot waves, 20 knot winds with a small craft advisory coming out in the afternoon, turning 3 - 5 with 25 and thunderstorms. Needless to say, it was beautiful sailing into 18 knot winds all the way to Pentwater. We found anchorage and used the stove and grill to prepare dinner. A storm did come roaring in from the west and in our protected harbor it was quite amazing to watch. Ken commented he hadn't watched a storm since he was a child. One of life's simple pleasures! The wind was gusting to 30 knots and I was really glad we were protected from this storm. Rain came down in sheets. It cleared after an hour and we had a beautiful evening. A few beers and we went to bed around 11.

Sunday, we took the dingy to breakfast at a diner and then prepped Freedom. We were really a crew now, we all knew what to do, and what was expected. Motor to the anchor while running the windlass, ready the main, switch to batteries 'all'. Fire up the diesel, turn for the canal leading to Lake Michigan.  BUT WAIT !   What did I see ahead? A sailboat! Headed out 1/4 mile ahead of us, his genoa already up, motoring. Ken was at the helm, I urged him to run the rpm's up a bit and let's give chase. Dale was a racer for many years, and he smiled a big grin, Ken said that was ridiculous.  ???

Up until this point, I overlooked Ken turning to port when Dale said to turn starboard, and Ken heading up when we need to turn down, but at this very instant I began to wonder if he was truly cut out for sailing.  :o  Every sailor I know gives chase, and by now we saw the boat in our sights was a Hunter 34, about half the weight, a little less sail, and 1/4 mile ahead. Dale read the boat's name and knew the skipper, an old racing man himself. I went below and put on a life preserver, I told the boys this was 'gonna get serious'. Dale laughed, but he was surely in with me. The 34 turned out of the channel on a broad reach with just his genoa. We turned South into the wind and I hoisted the main faster than I have ever hoisted a main sail. Dale barked "Head to Starboard" and Ken turned to port towards the sea wall. "The other Starboard!" Dale yelled, I guess he could raise his voice! Ken brought us back around, and we unfurled our genoa.

Ken manned the helm, and fought the waves so much that we zigged and zagged port and starboard. Dale commented that the 34 skipper would surely think we were in distress and maybe turn around, allowing us to catch up.  :D  Went below and put on a sweatshirt, winds were 20 knots and cold, and the waves tossed the boat a bit, making walking in the cabin a real challenge. I came topside and offered to relieve Ken so he could get a jacket on. Ken agreed, he looked a bit pale, really stressing out at this point. I used the 34 to point Freedom and caught the 34 quite quickly. As we passed to leeward, the crew on the stared at us, then turned about and raised their main. They looked short-handed and probably didn't really want the main up, but they were just passed and I knew how they felt! :P

They never had a chance, our bigger sails and longer waterline prevailed. The 34 tried to tack and catch a faster point of sail, but we held a steady 6.7 knots almost true to course. WOOOHOOO!!  Back into port, drop and stow the sails, motor back to the marina for a head pump-out and tie up at the dock. We took the final Bareboat test and I did well again, although this was the hardest of the three for me. A few celebratory beers with lunch and then we scrubbed down Freedom and covered the instruments. Dale received a phone call, it seems some friends had shown up and were raiding his refrigerator at home, so Ken and I not wanted to be a burden asked him to go do his thing while we looked around town one last time before the ferry took us home.

Neat town, Lundington, MI, and we shopped some eclectic places. A light dinner and a walk back to the ferry for an 8'oclock departure, and we were ready to be home. The ferry takes 4 hours to cross the lake, then I had a 2 hour drive home. It was great to be home, and now I have some wonderful memories of sailing the Hunter Legend.

My little CP19 was so small in front of the shop when I pulled in that night. I don't know if I'll keep her or trade up, with 3 kids and a first mate. I'd kind of like to have more of these kinds of adventures and the 19 just isn't big enough for all of us.  :-\

I guess I'll play it by ear! 

[AdriftAtSea]

Uhoh, someone sounds like he's got three-footitis, maybe six-footitis even. :)

[Captain Smollett]

Wonderful story, Lake.  Thanks for the write-up.

[CapnK]

Good story, and well told! Grog! :)

And a sailing story with both Beer and Brats in it? Double Grog!!! ;D

[Norm]

What a story!  I am glad to hear about your adventures.  As the captain/instructor I seldom here the unvarnished truth of a trip.  Good that you got some wind to see what that's all about. 

Now... go cruising!  Charter companies are usually pretty hip to offering boats to newly certified sailors.  If you get a few more days of sailing into your log book, so much the better.  (More on the charter business later).

Cubemonkey and I just completed a delivery of a 1985 Pearson 28-2 from NYC to Cape Cod Canal Marina for a couple.  Take a look at that boat for your family.  If four adults can fit comfortably, I reckon a family of five will have room to spare!  It is... after all... just nine little feet!  (Apologies to Dan for steeling his "footitis" reference.)

Thanks for the report.

Norman

[Norm]

Newt
Re:  BVI Chartering
Maybe worth a new thread?

To keep the record straight:  I work for Rob and Gina Swain at their company, swainsaililng.com.  They are a company that is in the certification and instruction business.  Gina is also a bare boat or skippered charter boat broker in the BVI.  I know people at Sunsail, Moorings, Horizon, TMM, Catamaran Co., and so on.  None of this is a sales pitch.

Charter companies have prohibitions about sailing at night unless one of their skippers is aboard.  It makes sense since there are few navigational aids in the Caribbean.  It is unbelievably dark at night at night.  Americans comment about it wondering why it seems darker in the BVI than at home.  I mean... isn't dark everywhere at night?

The Antigua companies are a bit less rigorous about the night sailing since the Antigua to Guadeloupe leg is 50 nm and takes all day with a landfall after dark in Deshaies, Guadeloupe.  Visa versa the return trip.  I doubt you could get permission to do that trip as a first time charterer.

The best brokers and charter companies look at your resume.  Resumes are helpful since the companies do not want you out in a boat you cannot handle.  You won't have fun and return next year...  The better the resume, the better the boat.  It also helps if two people are ASA Bareboat certified.

Getting used to the boat and place.  Great plan.  Do it in the VI.  The idea of sailing from Florida to PR and then the Virgins is great but you'll need the winter off and your own boat.  FL to PR is a long beat, almost a week of sailing to windward if you have a good boat.

The best way to really relax, enjoy sailing, and see the best of the Islands (US or British or both) is with a captain.  The increased cost is small in terms of quality of deliverables.

A question to the Team Sailfar is: who's chartered down there and what did they find?  The Caribbean is a big place and I have seen a small slice of it, in fact.

Best, Norman Martin

[newt]

Thank you for your words of advice concerning bare boating in the BVI.  You have confirmed what I already was coming to a conclusion on, ie nobody will let me do what I want to do with their boat, so I might as well get my own and keep it with a small charter company somewhere in the Caribbean. Perhaps a new thread is in order, as I do not want to decrease the fun that Lost Lake is having with his first lessons in a bare boat.
See ya in the new thread. ;D

[Lost Lake]

Newt and Norm,

Your posts fit right in with this thread! This is why we get Bareboat certifed, and why we take the cruising classes. While I have sailed for years on my own, these classes were intesting, informative and best of all FUN! I mean, this was only $900.... I think it was a steal... And to think that one can take the class in the BVI is just outstanding.

I have a friend with a 38' Beneteau that will let me sail his boat, but it is about 5 hours away from me, so I'll only get to sail it a few days this year. It will be great log book time though! I'll also splash my little 20 footer in my lake and sail it there to build time. I can always pull it out to take it to bigger water, but why let her sit on her wheels when her bottom paint is like new? Having your boat in your backyard promotes instant sailing as desired.

I took my classes through Northern Breezes, and I think they work with TMM in the BVI. I'll shop around though. My plan is to find a willing co-captain for a February Bareboat in the BVI, or I'll hire a skipper while I'm down there.


PS:  I just checked out the Pearson 28, and it does have a fantastic layout for my family. My son is 6, and he'd love the v-berth, my girls each would get a settee, and me and my first mate in the aft. Now that I'm spoiled by the Hunter 38, I'd have to see what the Pearson has for an icebox and storage. I think I'll look around and see if I can find a Pearson in the flesh... Errrrr... Glass I mean!

[Norm]

LostLake:
P 28s have nice enough galleys.  The ice chest is on the starboard side and doubles as a chart table.  The cooking space in the galley is shy unless you use the salon table.  Fancy cooking isn't really part of family cruising anyway.  We used the gas grill one night and that was fine.  An Igloo ice box in the cockpit locker would have been a good thing for the beverages.

There are lots of good boats.  The best one is the one you actually take sailing.

The owners bought a Portland Pudgy dink that is amazing.  Easy to tow, great rowing, and fits four adults.  Bit pricey I suppose but worth it.

TMM is a good outfit.  I skippered a couple of their cats last winter.  Great service and nicely cared for boats.

Hope you get in some sailing this weekend.  Our plan is morning in the garden and evenings on the boat.  The house is going to heck ever since we bought Averisera!  Averisera looks fine. 

Norm

[newt]

Crusing is more fun than just sailing. I'm glad your hooked Lost Lake.  ;D

[Auspicious]

If you are considering putting a boat in charter you should read sailonline.com . They are biased toward the Moorings (so am I), but will give you perspective you won't get any other way.

[OptiMystic]

I got kind of an interesting perspective on this last winter. I am not certified and I have only been on a few boats larger than 21', usually as a passenger and the little bit of crewing I have done on big boats was not extensive at all. But on the smaller boats I have a lot of experience dating back decades and including power boats as well as sail boats. Anyway, I wondered if there were courses out there for people who wanted to pretty much jump straight into sailing the bigger boat without 2 or 3 days of stuff you mostly already know. I know there would be a few gems in there for me, but the tradeoff of spending half of an expensive vacation week (because I was looking into doing this in the Carribean) mostly indoors rehashing info I know was not appealing to me. I sent out a few queries by email after finding some likely places by searching around and following links from some sailing sites I frequent. The answer was pretty consistent - either you take the specific course for certification, pay a lot of money for private lessons, go on a crewed charter and observe or - and this is the option that surprised me - go ahead and charter a bareboat.

That last option surprised me because I was very clear about my experience, but nearly every reply I got said that certain charters were possible without certification and that they expected to have to spend some time helping familiarize you with the boat even if you were certified. One reply was very specific. He said the GPS would be in charge -  there would be waypoints set near each anchorage to let me know where to drop sail and go to engine on the way in and where it was okay to raise sail on the way out. I would have to demonstrate good basic boat driving skills and practice setting the anchor and raising/lowering sail a couple of times. There would be no docking involved. They would get me in and out of the slip. That's all he said - the next part is somewhat guesswork on my part. I think the prescribed routes were where they could keep tabs on you; they may have crewed charters or other boats around the anchorages. I am guessing the distances were pretty short.  I think having a high credit limit would be required.

I didn't follow up on any of them. For various reasons, a trip down there didn't pan out like I hoped (the rest of the family outvoted me and we went on a big cruise ship), but my time will come...