Plumbing, flush and scrub: "Head-iquette" ;)

[Jack Tar]

If you have a boat with a regular head and you use salt water to flush and run the system try this. Once your done and back in the slip flush the head with a gallon or so of fresh water. Add you deodorant and close her up. Flushing out the salt water keeps the head fresh and  will all but stop that dank odor. Add a little vegetable oil now and then to keep the system lubed and seals fresh too.

[Dougcan]

Works for me, of course rinsing the bucket out with salt water works just as well!

Dunno about the oil thing, I tried that once to give me a good seal between my butt and the bucket, it's sure ain't fresh by the time I got off it! And I keep sliding off the cockpit seats afterward...

[Amorous]

I use RV antifreeze.  Even in the summer.  It has lubricants in it and smells good too.  It's also cheap!

[Skipper Dave]

Amorous,

Never heard of using antifreeze, how much and do you just pour into the head or add through pumpout?

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This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.

S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27

[Zen]

"antifreeze"  :o
Sorry to jump in with the "hippie" thing...( I'm in Northern Ca :-[)
Doesn't that kill anything around it when it is dumped  ??? Are you talking all the time and go to pumpouts, or offshore dumping...or...?

[Amorous]

I use that biodegradable, non toxic, RV antifreeze.  The pink stuff.  Supposedly you can drink it straight.  Of course they SAY that you can drink the tap water in Phoenix too.
I just pump the bowl dry, add a cup or so and pump a little through while leaving some on the flapper. It doesn't evaporate, and keeps everything lubricated.

[Skipper Dave]

Thanks I'm gonna try it.

----------------------------------------------------

This morning it looked so nice out I thought I'd leave it out.

S/V "Tina Marie" Cal 2-27

[Zen]

 ;D

whewwww, I feel better. So much so. I'll try that once I get my system working  ;)

...sweet

[Dougcan]

I have a good place for it in the head; what man needs a head when at sea anyway.  No, I do not do the rail dangle; I use a bottle or a bucket when at sea.

Well, I do use the head. especially when I have guests on board!

I've been in 12' swells and used the head with no problem.  Of course using a bottle for #1 is okay when I'm alone, but I cannot bring myself to do so in front of others, especially when the "others" are females.  Likewise, most females would rather not "use the bottle" in front of males.  (Significance others excepted!)

Key here though, in stormy weather/high swells, is to sit down for everything, don't try to pee standing up.

If I was alone, I might use a bucket, but with others on board, well I'm a bit too "civilized" to do so.

I meant if a guest needed to go, do I tell him/her to use a bucket in plain view of everyone?  The boat is a tad too small to go elsewhere and leave the poor soul some privacy and I'll be darned if I make everyone go on the deck in a stormy situation.

The way I have done this in the past on my former boat (SJ21), where the "head" is in the middle of the cabin is to have everybody, but one come out to to the cockpit and close up the companionway to give the one person some privacy.  There's a point where that might not be practical, thus the need for an enclosed head.

I know many other sailors that use the bucket, in fact I've had one tell me that the bucket is preferable.  Maybe I'm too modest or shy or something.  Then there's how do you keep the bucket from tipping over before you can rinse it out?

Heck, how can you rinse it out while underway?  Moving water is not something I'm willing to dip a bucket into without risking tearing off my arms.  (Unless the boat is moving really slow.)

Most discussions on this subject I have read deals with using bottles/buckets and the like and how to clean up and so on, but I don't think I've ever seen any discussion on the "social aspect" of bucket use.

I know that a lot of us are not all that "nature free" and so on, so how do you all deal with the "social aspect" of "having to go"?   I know when one really have to go, one tend to not care so much, but afterward, there's this awkward moment...

What say you?

[castawaysailor]

What say you?

I agree, but I sail alone so most of the aforementioned is mute.  If I had guests or others aboard, sure, I would use the head, always.

[Captain Smollett]

[ Likewise, most females would rather not "use the bottle" in front of males.  (Significance others excepted!)

I cannot speak for females of course, but it has been my experience that there is generally not an exception for significant others.

The head privacy situation is one I am wrestling with as well, having FOUR on a 18 ft boat.  One is still in daipers, so that's okay.  Another is still young enough to not care too much, but she does occasionally show a preference for wanting some privacy.

This is one of the real reasons I think we are going to outgrow the 18 footer.  Whether it is just to answer nature's call or just to have a bit of personal space on board, the present boat is severely limited.

[AdriftAtSea]

Capn Smollett-

Four people on an 18' boat is definitely a tight fit.  Having a head that can be closed off from the cabin, as I do on my boat, is definitely a major plus, but often not possible on smaller boats. 

One of the problems I seen with some of my guests is that being down below makes them more likely to be seasick... which makes going below to use the head a challenge under certain conditions.

[Zen]

Now that the regular sailing season is somewhat finshed here, with the on set of rains and no winds. Except for today which was perfect, but I was on boat work detail not fun.
Anywho.

So my attention is now turning inward to this years to do list.
one of the things is get the head in operation. currently my seacok is frozen tight closed. The inside is socking, liqud wrench. However I do not think it will coming loose. All the rest of the seacocks are like new!

I plan on having her hauled out in January for a bottom paint. At which point I can have the seacock, replaced or rebuilt.

Which bring to mind the purposeof having it fixed. To use the marine head. I want to be able to flush liquids ONLY while out on the Bay. Solids when the need arrives. Goes in the holding tank.  Out a sea everything would go overboard. The idea requires a couple , hmm three Y values as I have it planned in order to bypass the holding tank when liquids are in use.
sounds complex eh! Yeah I do also. But I could go direct to sea or to tank, then tank to sea or to pumpout.

Another idea is just to use a porta potti.(simple, but a hassle to empty) whilst local. When going blue water passage hook up the Maine Head.

The other part to this is, The flush water on the marine system comes from the fresh water tank, I believe. Is there a way to hook it up to seawater? Is it practical, Pro & Cons?

and whilst on the subject of seawater.  I hear/read about using two pumps in the galley, one for seawater. Where/how does the hookup for seawater go. As in where is the inlet for the seawater? Only thing I could think of would be an connection of some sort off the sink seacock or motor cooler seacock.

So what do YOU do/think?

[AdriftAtSea]

Zen-

You might run into some legal issues with being able to flush liquids within the three-mile limit.   :D

Also, I think the engineering that it would require is going to be more than you want to get into.  The definition of liquid versus solid is rather vague when it comes to waste products...  I think it would make more sense to be able to flush to either the ocean or to a holding tank, but have a way to empty said holding tank while at sea.  When it comes to a marine head—simplicity is a virtue that is often overlooked.

Most marine heads are not connected to the fresh water system on a boat, at least directly, so you might want to check that. It is likely plumbed to a seacock.  The reason for this is that there is too high a risk of contamination in a non-pressurized water system.  Most heads that can be flushed via freshwater are usually rigged to take water from the head sink, which acts to separate the two systems and ensures that the head can't contaminate the fresh water system.

Standing seawater in the head is often a source of head stench.  Seawater has a number of lifeforms—mainly planktons that raise an awful stink when they die and start to decompose.

Having both a head and a porta-potty strikes me as a royal pain in the butt. Why bother with the porta-potty if you've got a perfectly good marine head.   If reducing the need to pump out is the reason, then you might look at getting the "toilet bags" for use while you're sailing on the bay.

The idea of a seawater pump faucet in the galley is to help reduce the need for freshwater.  Often, you can tap into another seawater line, either the flush line for the head, or more typically, the cooling water intake for the engine.  On some larger boats, I've seen them install a seawater manifold box—which acts as a distribution point for all of the seawater needs, except for engine cooling—and reduces the number of through hulls required.  If you're going to use it for the galley sink, don't forget to include a good raw-water strainer....keeps the jellyfish out of the sink.

[Frank]

   I think a 'raw water' tap @ your sink is worth it. I installed one on 'revival' and 'Jubilee' came with one. Saves on your fresh water when you are simply rinsing food off your dishs before washing them etc. I drilled/installed a 3/4in seacock on #50 and ran a hose up to a 2nd hand pump I installed @ the sink....was simple. Jubilee has it right under the sink.   Your head should have a 'raw water' intake...again a 3/4in seacock. Fresh water there would be a waste....especially on a passage. On #50 I installed a Y valve to the tank or overboard (again..a proper seacock). I toyed with the idea of a 2nd Y valve on the discharge line from the tank connected to a hand pump to have the ability to pump out the tank over board while offshore.There is a pump made just for that.I have one @ home if you need make/model #. Pretty simple stuff really...BUT...proper seacocks and Y valves ARE expensive.

[s/v Faith]

....... hmm three Y values as I have it planned in order to bypass the holding tank when liquids are in use.
sounds complex eh! Yeah I do also. But I could go direct to sea or to tank, then tank to sea or to pumpout......

....So what do YOU do/think?

Zen,

  You might want to take a look at this thread on the Ariel site.

  In posts 32, 33, and 34 Frank is describing a very similar set up he found aboard 'Revival' when he got her.



Quote from post 34;

Bill .. if I could tell you how all that worked I would have needed to graduate from Harvard. The guy who installed it must have just bought shares in the hose manufacturing company.....or possibly the company making the plastic 'ties'. There was honestly OVER 60ft of hose total and had to be 100 ties !!! While I have NO doubt this system could ' slice,dice and do julian french fries ' I just couldn't figure it out. All joking aside , you could pump head to tank , head over board and tank overboard......I just couldn't find the instructions. The big attraction to the Ariel was the pleasing lines and simplicity of sailing a small boat.....so ...45ft of 1 1/2 hose , 98 ties and 3 Y valves later I have a simple system again. Guess I should have got that engineering degree !! Frank #50

 

[Frank]

I honestly think a system could be worked out WAY WAY simpler than the PO had on revival. He had 3 Yvalves...I'm sure 2 would do it.......and 1/4 as much hose !!  Ya had to see that one to believe it !!

[Zen]

Yeah, thats what I'm talking about!

The orginal looked like a nightmare. I figured out I can use way way less hose, but still would need 3 valves. I have two now, and looking things over I could make do but , it would cut back on versatility.

1 valve - toliet to overboard/tank
1 valve - tank to overboard/pumpout
1 valve - seacock to tank/toliet

Thanks for the word on the seawater for the toilet. I thought that would make more sense. I had figured since my water tank was empty and the toliet would not fillup that was the problem. I will now follow the lines to see were they lead. Must be a valve that is closed. It is not just the one at the throne. Seems like the POs never used the head so everything is turned off.

Not a big deal in the Marina, just head for the office. On board with just me, Red handy lil john s fine. The ex-gf did not mind using the female adapter. However Lady Z, likes her comfort. Once doing some coastal cruising which is the plan for next year. The holding tank will be needed. Which seems like it will work fine  as it is now, once I figure out where the water turns on.  ???

The biggest wall in this whole plan is the frozen seacock  >:(


Craig: sorry I missed your call. I was off doing the Christmas thing at my Sifu's school.

[AdriftAtSea]

Zen-

Murphy's law says that the seacock you need to open is the frozen one.  ;)

[Zen]

that @&$)&@$*# Murphy is a pain in the *)@&*@&$  :D

That could be, but it seems like it is only and exit .
I will have a ful investagation this friday, my day OFF  ;D 8)