Two Dog Nights: Cabin Heat In Winter

[JWalker]

update on the petromax cp150

I did some internet research, and the gubment recommends one square inch of ventilation for each 1K btu for an unvented kero heater. The lantern is supposed to burn somewhere between 8-12k btu....so I figured 12 square inches.

the top of our companion way is over 30 inches....so a 1/2" gap would give me 15" of vent....

I made a clear vinyl companionway cover for rainy days, and we have been using that...the top leans inward for venting while allowing rain to not drip in the cabin, and the bottom is loose and can be pushed out. we have been using the top
for venting and felt like it was fine. It has more than 1/2" of venting.

we have been using it for about two weeks.....(we stayed with my grandmother for a week)
I have just now burned a gallon of kero....well....I just refilled the gallon container....before we went I willed an 8 ounce bottle I've been using to fill the lantern with, and filled the lantern with another 8 oz.....and there was a little bit left in the container. We then headed to ace hardware in Florence AL and got a gallon.

I checked the price of low odor mineral spirits, and it was 13.99, the kerosene was 5ish for a gallon.

We have been burning it for three to four hours a day, its getting dark around 4:30 and we have been going to bed around 9. Even when it has not been that cold I have been running it because it REALLY helps dry the boat out! And also I really like the light it gives.....really nice cheery light, which is a nice contrast to our LEDs.

Last night was by far the coldest we have had, it was 27. At 9:00 when we were heading to bed the cabin temp was 63.
I'm sure that it wasnt 27 at 9, but it was cold enough. This morning I woke up and lit the lantern, the first time in the am.
it was 43 in the cabin when I woke up, and within an hour it was 58, also the boat had condensated quite a bit over night, and that was drying out by the time we pulled up anchor.

So to sum up....I'm very happy with the lantern.....

with that said.....the globes are poop. I'm on my fourth one, all have heat cracked...the brytelyt globes are pyrex which will take the heat, I will be replacing mine.

It is something that takes learning how to use....its a bit fiddly to get going. You have to preheat the burner so it will vaporize the kero, this is easy because they built in a blowtorch. but you have to blowtorch 45 to 60 seconds, and that takes some pumping.

Somehow I manages to smash a jet needle. I have no idea how this happened....but I took it apart and figured out what was wrong, and since they include a second jet, needle wrench, jet poker thingy, rubber seal, and two other things I'm not sure what they do......it was a snap to unscrew the one needle and put the replacement in. But now I think I need to have another needle on hand.

the gimble would be great, as would the side reflector.

So in conclusion, I do not think that this will be the end all heater for everyone....but I am very happy with it....the cost was very low, the operating cost is low, and the light is wonderfully bright, and the head is sufficient. We have not been chased out of the cabin, but we havent been cold either.

but I'm still drooling over that wallas! ;D

[skylark]

Are the mantles holding up?

[JWalker]

the mantles have been holding up....the globes not so much....I have replaced two mantles due to bumping them while replacing the globe.

We have spent two days with 2 foot chop on the nose which were pretty rough plowing through under motor and the mantles were fine.

yesterday the wind clocked over to s/se and we sailed on a beam reach all the way down lake wilson to the lock.....much more comfortable

the britelyt people (american petromax dealerish long story) is in new port ritchey FL, and they have pyrex globes, if I break another I think I'll order one of the frosted globes for general delivery to a marina on our route....if I don't I think I may try to stop in there on our way down. They also have gimbles.

Brytelyt says they are going to be making a heater attachment this coming year, which will boost the heat output to 14k btu.

Open question to those in the know: Is it safe to run a vented bulkhead kero/diesel heater all night while you sleep?

[skylark]

Yes, they are designed to run 24 hours a day all winter.

[Snapdragon]

I think I saw something like this somewhere, maybe on sailfar, but now I can't find it.  Anyway--- if it works, the credit goes to someone else.
It turned cool today and I was kicking around the barn looking for something to do and I came across an old Coleman lantern stuck away on a shelf.  I also found an old aluminum tea kettle in the recycle bin.  I cut the bottom out of the kettle, drilled a small bolt hole in the center of the top of it and mounted it to the top of the lantern.  I had to buy the 1 1/2 inch flex exhaust hose from Autozone ($6.95) and it fit perfectly over the tea kettle spout.  It only took a few minutes for it to get to operating temperature and put out enough heat to bring Puff's cabin temperature  up several degrees.  The kettle and exhaust hose radiates  quite a bit of heat, and the exhaust gasses exit pretty well through the roof vent.  I'll be looking for a better way to vent the exhaust gasses, since the roof vent has a plastic floating disk, and the exhaust gets pretty warm.  Perhaps I can mount the heater on a platform just aft of the chain locker and vent through the old anchor chain deck fitting that is no longer being used.  Any feedback or insightful comments would be much appreciated.

[JWalker]

i was thinking about doing the same thing.....venting the lantern.

grog for trying it before i did and validating my idea!

the only problem i have is the same i have with a bulkhead heater......
where do i put it?

[tomwatt]

Some years ago I came across a guy heating with a woodstove... only instead of a stovepipe exhaust, his stovepipe ran into a large steel drum, and exited the other side again as stovepipe and on out... the steel drum had another pipe welded in so the whole drum resembled an elongated donut. The contraption caused a lot of heat transfer: he was heating a large workshop (would hold 4 cars plus tools, racks etc.) easily with a small woodstove.
I don't know if anyone could/would want to adapt something along that line to a small cabin heater, but it's just a thought that seemed worth sharing. Maybe a small muffler could be adapted for the job?

[SeaHusky]

My immediate thought about Snapdragons post (apart from "Well done!") was that if you keep the lantern where it is and draw a long exaust hose along the roof and out through the mentioned anchor chain deck fitting you will use much more of the generated heat. A long chimney (coiled perhaps) or one fitted with some sort of heat exchanger is very effective. Perhaps one can use an old radiator of some sort. You just need to keep a good draught through it.

[CapnK]

Was re-reading the thread from the beginning, and ran across Jack tar's suggestion to search for diesel truck heaters. Did that, and this was one of the first I ran across, Espar Airtronic heaters. Look like they might be very similar to the Wallas.

Here's the smallest unit, the D2, at eBay, current bidding is around $925. Stats: 19cfm, .026 gal/hr, .6 amps. Sounds economical - except for the price - but boat heaters seem to be expensive.

Maybe because most of us are warm-weather wimps...? ;)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-ESPAR-AIRTRONIC-D2-12-VOLT-DIESEL-FIRED-HEATER-COMPLETE-INSTALL-KIT-/290642058040?pt=Other_Vehicle_Parts&vxp=mtr&hash=item43ab9ddb38

(I'll attach a screenshot for posterity.)

[Bonzai]

Recently I have been looking for a cabin heater. I am planning a trip up the East Coast this spring/summer and anticipate morning chill that the oil lamps may not be able to defeat. After experiencing the usual sticker shock (one I was looking at uses your diesel from tanks and doubles as a cooktop) I began figuring how to get a ck that size past the Admiral. Last week I was in Lowe's and saw a small camping propane heater that uses Coleman bottled or 20 lb tanks. Says safe for indoor use. Tried it night before last on boat as aft cabin heat w o/s temps high 30s. Friggin thing is amazing!The top and back of unit stayed cool to the touch. No sign of headache. Kept small cabin bearable w only the pilot light burning! Turned it on low for a few min before exiting sleeping bag and cabin was toasty! Anyone had more experience with these? I am thinking of getting another for the forward cabin. They cost aound $70 I think it was. Beat the poop out of the prices I was looking at before. Mr. Heater 9000 BTU . My propane tanks are stored on deck in open so seemed like a perfect solution. Unbelievable amt of heat on low and high settings. Thought this might benefit someone else looking for good heat for a small boat.  ;D

[Captain Smollett]

No sign of headache.

And you won't if carbon dioxide levels get too high.

Not trying to be alarmist, or "that guy," but safe for indoor use in a home is a very different thing than safe for use in a small boat cabin.  Does it say 'safe for use in a closed up walk-in closet?'

As for carbon monoxide, I think Craig posted some CO numbers he measured on his Ariel from an open flame heater a while back, and noticed that a VERY LARGE amount of ventilation was needed.

At least here's the link where he mentioned it (and some other good info in that thread).

I am thinking of getting another for the forward cabin.

I'd be very surprised if you need a separate one for the fore cabin.

We used a single 5000 BTU cabin heater to heat the cabin on the Alberg 30.  We had numerous nights in the teens.  Occasionally, we closed off the fore cabin and just let it work on the main cabin.

There were many nights in the 20's that it was not on "high."  Mostly it had to do with the water temperature I think.  Earlier in the season, 25 deg air temp was no problem (the water was still "warm").  Later in the season, 25 took more heater to keep the boat warm.

But even with that, we had a two week stretch where it did not get above freezing.  One small, 5000 BTU heater did the trick.  Of course, I should point out we dressed for winter conditions, too.   ;)  Layers, you know the drill.

But, we heated three winters with a single 5000 BTU heater, supplemented only by cooking at normal meal times with the galley stove and heating water for dishes, etc.

[Bonzai]

Thanks Cap. Going to need 2 if heating both cabins as they are separated. Ventilation is no problem as have plenty portlights. I can absolutely see 5000 BTU being plenty, the low setting on this 9000 BTU heater is a lot of heat. It would almost demand partly opening at least a couple portlights even if on low setting. I do not plan on much cold weather cruising. Also have CO1 detectors. I hear they are bad for forming moisture if used in unventilated areas. For my envisioned very limited use I am going to try it. Will post any problems I encounter, assuming I survive them.... ;D 

[Captain Smollett]

Thanks Cap. Going to need 2 if heating both cabins as they are separated.

More separated than the two cabins on an Alberg 30?  The A-30 has the head one one side and a hanging locker on the other side between the two cabins.  There are several feet of "room" between the two cabins.

We usually put the heater in that spot...on the sole 'between' the two cabins.  We moved it into the main cabin during the day sometimes, but typically just barely.

Get two if you want...more to store, more 'hassle,' etc, but purely from a heating standpoint, one 9000 BTU unit should be more than plenty even for two cabins.  At least my experience with heating two cabins suggests it should be.

We owned a second heater; we bought two thinking we might need it.  It has never been taken out of the box.

Edit: I looked back and saw in some of your old posts that you are on a 35 footer.  If so, okay...one single heater may not be enough.  Sorry.  For some reason, I thought you were on a mid-20's "small boat."   ;)

[Bonzai]

Yes Cap...separate as in no way connected. On the early SY35s like mine the aft cabin has entry at rear of center-cockpit. The engine room takes up amidships entirely from gunnel to gunnel. I agree that 9000 BTU is more than enuff for both but will have to install ductwork to make it happen. Gonna look into the smaller units.  Keep this one and maybe another bigger for house emergency heat. I see they have a 4000 BTU version....plenty for my use on boat. http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=41&id=116

[CapnK]

I've used the Coleman Cat heaters a number of times on the boat, and more recently in the van. Similar to the Mr. Buddy unit, they use a catalytic burner of some sort to burn 99%+ of the fuel and output basically 0% CO. As I understand, they do use up available oxygen, and thus produce some CO2.

While I don't advocate running them in a closed-up space with no ventilation, I have fallen asleep with them on a few times to no ill effect*. So while it is not at all a "best practice" to use them in such a manner, I do think it is a better solution for the reason that more likely than not, it *won't* kill you if working properly and "sleep happens".

Others burners, working properly, *will* definitely kill you. It's a thin line, but the catalytics at least help you stay on the right side. :) I've read that the Mr. Buddy's have a built-in CO2 shut off - if true, that's nice... so long as it works when needed. ;)

I try to use the Cats for a warm-up before sleep and then again when climbing out of the sack in the AM. They do emit some IR, so pointing them at you makes it feel warmer than otherwise.

I have both the Sport and Black Cat (older) versions; the Black Cat is about 2X the size/output of the Sport, for prolly 1/2 the time on the same amount of fuel. Because the biggun' uses so much more fuel, I shut it off after initial warming and use the small one to maintain warmth over time.



*This may well be debatable... ;D

[sharkbait]

Find a fat girl or a large dog.
the girl could cook but the dog wont talk back.

[Frank]

Find a fat girl or a large dog.
the girl could cook but the dog wont talk back.

:D :D :D

[Oldrig]

I just found this thread, and I have only one comment (other than laughing about fat girls and large dogs). Those little portable propane catalytic heaters, like the "Mr. Heater" are illegal here in Massachusetts. You cannot even have one shipped here. Maybe it's nanny-state-ism, but maybe it's because they can be dangerous, I don't know.

However, I use a Origo alcohol heater when I need to warm up the cabin. Using it means keeping the hatches open a crack, and alcohol is expensive to burn full time. But I was able to buy this heating unit here in the nanny-state ... and I even used it to keep one room in my dry-land house warm during a prolonged power outage.

--Joe

[Bonzai]

After using my Mr. Heater for 3 wks straight I have noticed zero problems. Yes Oldrig I would say that is def nanny-ism...lol....are toothpicks illegal there too? ;D.....They CAN be dangerous also in the hands of a complete blithering idiot....u could put an eye out ffs ::).... I do keep my snorkel vents open when using heater so have good air exchange.

[Oldrig]

Suppose I could have a friend from RI or NH order one and sneak it over the line ...  ;D