Small Boat Storm Tactics

[Captain Smollett]

Dan, they DO discuss series drogues in general (none by brand name), and the tactic of streaming a drogue from bow, stern or on a bridle.  Their conclusion was that it is not as effective in breaking seas.  A series drogue on a bridle to help hold the boat hove-to would work, just not, in their opinion, as effective as a larger para-anchor at creating/lengthening the slick.

Their data extends into the 90's, and includes the '79 Fastnet, as well as the '94 Queen's Birthday storm, so it is pretty 'modern.'

The punchline (for anyone who has not read the book) is that running before storm force winds and breaking seas (with or without a drag device) depends on luck at best - even with a drag device to slow the boat, breaking seas can knock her down, broach or pitchpole her.  According to comparison of data of boats lost or damaged vs those that were NOT damaged in many, many storm encounters, those running have a MUCH higher risk of damage than those hove-to.  Note that this is a comment on the attitude of the boat to wind/sea, not the method to get/hold her there.  Sometimes, a drag device is needed to help hold her hove-to.

It's hard to argue with real-world data.  The Pardey's conclusion from the available data: stream a drag off bow or stern, high risk of boat/crew damage; stream a drag off a bridle to hold the boat ~50 degrees off the wind, MUCH MUCH safer.  The drag you use, if one is necessary at all, to hold the boat in this attitude will remain somewhat personal preference.

This is partly consistent with Eric Hiscock's earlier comments in Voyaging Under Sail.  To paraphrase Hiscock, when speaking of streaming a sea-anchor off the bow: it's failed so many times [he] wonders why it is still used.  This was solidified in my mind when I read a story in Blue Water Cruising a few years ago of a couple who set a sea-anchor off the bow in 50+ kts and got absolutely beat up, with a lot of damage to the boat as well.  During the night, their rode parted and the boat adjusted herself to a hove-to attitude and the crew's comments were that she suddenly quieted down, the ride got much more comfortable.  I always wondered why, after that experience, they then took measures to point the bow BACK into the wind and continued to suffer damage. 

Finally, in the interest of completeness, Dan, I have NO IDEA how this is effected/changed when considering multihulls. The only comment on mult-hull vs monohull the Pardey's made was that smaller para-anchor is generally needed for monohulls than what is typically carried for multihulls.

As always, YMMV, and with the sea, there is no magic, silver bullet.

[AdriftAtSea]

Have you seen the data from Jordan's website, which has some serious testimonials from all different types of boats in different situations, which contradicts what the Pardeys have said about series drogues.  The Jordan Series Drogue, IMHO, is designed to work differently than most other drogues and sea anchors.

Probably well worth taking a look, since it is specifically designed to help smaller craft, where some of the others will not do as good a job.

One of the key things I've noticed in their testimonials is the following phrase in one form or another: 

he reported no further damage to the boat after the drogue was deployed

[Captain Smollett]

Have you seen the data from Jordan's website

Yes, about ten years ago, I read that web site.  And, since you linked to it this morning, I checked it out again.  So, I *am* familiar with it, and quite frankly, cannot say with personal experience one way or another.

Since this is the "book locker" area of the board, I was simply relating what the BOOK had to say about the series drogue.  You challenged that they did not mentioned it, but they did.  If you disagree with their conclusion, that's your business (and you might be right).  Note that they did not say that a series drogue would not be effective, only that in THEIR opinion, it is not AS effective as a para-anchor.  They were clear in stating that this is their OPINION.

What they WERE clear about was the data regarding bow or stern streaming  vs bridle streaming.  With running, even with a drag, it is only a matter of time before an UNEXPECTED breaking sea hits the boat with high potential for damage or even loss of the boat.  In many of the cases they described, the knock-down was completely unexpected.  This is the event that never happened with a hove-to boat.

[CharlieJ]

Two points to inject in this discussion.

First, JeanneP who posts on CSBB and also moderates a cruising BB out of Austraila has instructions on her own website for making your own Jordan series drogue. It's in down loadable PDF form. Go to this link-

http://www.cruiser.co.za/faq2.asp

scroll down to "drogue" and click on "Download here"

Secondly, way before the Jordan book was ever dreamed of, a couple named John and Joan Casanova wrote and published a book called "Parachute Anchoring Techniques", primarily aimed at multihulls. That book is still available if you search for it a bit. They used the technique successfully several times in sailing their own tri around Cape Horn and up to the Falklands. Of course, in those days the mainstream "yachting" press was having little to do with multihulls, so the book got short shrift from them. Chiodi with Multihulls magazine gave it good coverage.

[Captain Smollett]

Secondly, way before the Jordan book was ever dreamed of, a couple named John and Joan Casanova wrote and published a book called "Parachute Anchoring Techniques", primarily aimed at multihulls.

Did you mean 'the Pardey book?'

[CharlieJ]

No sir- I meant the Casanova's book. Well before the Pardeys started writing all that much. They were still cruising in Serafyn at that time.

A copy is available from Tappin Book mine for 10 bucks.

http://www.tappinbookmine.com/catalogs/nautical000001.htm

Scroll about halfway down and look for the name Casanova.

[Captain Smollett]

CJ, you said "way before the Jordan book"

That's the part I thought you meant "way before the Pardey book."

Sorry if I'm confused...

[CharlieJ]

During that time, Dan Shewmon was just beginning the DDD- Drag Device Data base- compiling the info. Working with Victor Shane. The Casanovas were the first, as far as I know, to write about using a parachute as a sea anchor. But again- they were aiming at multihulls primarily although they did talk about monohulls in the book.

All of this was partly the basis for the later books, both by the Pardeys ( with their own experiences involved of course) and the Jordan series drogues. Later stuff improved on the techniques of course, as more experience was gathered and more sailors tried it out. But they were pretty much the pioneers.

And pretty much forgotten, sadly

[Ol' Coot]

The Jordan Series Drogue, IMHO, is designed to work differently than most other drogues and sea anchors.

The Jordan web site does in fact have some interesting testemonials...  However, I do have some concerns. 

Almost all of our boats are (relatively) small, and to my way of thinking, are very vulnerable to a boarding wave over the transom.  Sailboats in general are designed to withstand water going across the deck from bow to stern.  Coaminges(sp?), sea hoods, dodgers, etc. are designed to deflect water away from the main hatch and cockpit when the bow is facing the waves.  These structures would tend to scoop water into the boat when the water is moving in the opposite direction (Stern facing the waves; boat moving slower than the seas; water over-taking the boat from behind.) 

Additionally, most boats have rather lightly built hatch boards (1/2 to 3/4 of an inch thick.  The idea of several tons of water (and its only 31 cu. ft of water per ton) hitting that that 3/4 inch thick wood hatch scares the heck out of me.

Anybody else wonder about this?

Kevin

[AdriftAtSea]

Ol' Coot-

From my discussions with Don Jordan... because of how the JSD is designed, boarding waves are not really an issue.  If you read the user testimonials, you'll see that being pooped isn't really an issue, since the boat is making some forward progress... albeit relatively slowly. 

I think that is one of the major differences between a sea anchor or parachute drogue and the JSD. The shock loading caused by a parachute-type anchor is much higher.

[Fortis]

I agree 100% about replacing flimsy little washboards. Rather then lexan or such, we opted for bi-directional grain timber. So we have a marine four ply under layer and then did a diamond pattern fronticepiece of jarah timber planks (tongue and groove) which look great and are strong as heck.

Good drainage of the cockpit is pretty essential, we got plastered in the H28 once while crossing a river bar. The two little scuppers were worthless and the cockpit turned into a spa bath...but not in the charming way. Guess what, all those poeple jumping in and out of the cockpit puts micro cracks into the corners. And those leak if you put enough water in. Not enough so you sink...just enough to utterly annoy you for several weeks of clean up and finding mouldy surprises.

Having said all that, the worst situation we ever had in our own boat (which has a big well in the cockpit and can drain an immense amount of water very fast) was a freak wave that hit the aft quarter side on (we were crossing a tidal stream, but all looked serene until we got had). The boat literally jumped, rolled and span around on its keel so that the bow was now pointing more then 110degrees off the course we had been sailing. The sails backwinded and went nuts and all the rest is an excercise in very tired people hoping to get home needing to race around the deck sorting things out.  The wave did board and land a fair bit of water on us, but the sudden disorientation and mess with the sails was for a brief moment a greater danger.


Alex.

[s/v Faith]

This topic was split off of Storm Tactics handbook

 

[David_Old_Jersey]

Fitting the washboards (or at least the bottom one) if the weather merits this can be a PIA, but saves filling the cabin if ever pooped, especially on an aft cockpit vessel. Also an idea to have a method of being able to lock the washboards in place (from below and above) so that if you do ever get rolled past 90 degrees they don't drop out and fill the cabin quite so quickly......

Or you could go for self stowing washboards that just drop down into the bulkhead ;D (I had never even heard of these before - but I now love 'em!).



NOT "Perro"........

[Frank]

Great 'back-forth' group!! FWIW..When 'ole stinky' quite..I was 26knm out and in 6-8ft seas. I hove-to under main only (flickas sail ahead if the jib is backwinded) and proceded to remove the cockpit floor to inspect the filters. The ride was GREAT !! It barely crawled ahead and took NO water with good motion. We ALL should practice this BEFORE 'going out there' ( I did..this time ;))

[s/v Faith]

This thread reminded me of my plan to build or purchase a sea anchor.

  I found this one;



For sale on Ebay ==>Add here<==.

5' Diameter Military Surplus Parachute Sea Anchor, never used or removed from original packing. 

These chutes are perfect for boats up to 26-27' but you have to decide if it is right for you as each boat is different in size and weight.  It will help keep your boat headed into the wind when sailing and keeps your boat moving with the current when fishing.

The chute has 12, 9' shroud lines with extra stitching at main stress points.

  Stows in small space (unlike Jordan series drogue), and uses anchor rode already aboard.



Guy says he has sold over 1500 of these around the world with 700 sold on EBAY alone and never had one complaint regarding the quality of these chutes or to their use as a sea-anchor. 

[Fortis]

One could suggest the sellers of faulty parachutes also don't get many direct complaints.
;D

I just think it is an umbrella painted orange with strings attached. You can see the handle in the pic.

[s/v Faith]

I just think it is an umbrella painted orange with strings attached. You can see the handle in the pic.

Drat!  Foiled again....   :P


;D  No, that is an umbrella he put it on to show what it looks like.  I have seen this sea anchor in person (used at a marine flea market) and it is pretty heavily made.  The one I saw at the flea market was $150, which I thought was kinda high.  This one was much more reasonable.


  I frankly don't intend to ever use it.  I think watching for weather windows is much more effective.  I also have a boat that will heave too very well, and would only use the chute if I was off a lee shore and absolutely had no choice.  I would then use a bridle as per the Pardleys.   Their experience trumps all the reading and internet searches combined for me.

[Captain Smollett]

as per the Pardleys.   Their experience trumps all the reading and internet searches combined for me.

LOL.  Yeah, riding out 80+ kts in a 24 ft boat and actually calling it "comfortable" is a pretty strong selling point.

Which reminds me of a question I meant to ask:

Anyone on here actually currently carry a trysail?  If so, how do you rig it (same track as main, parallel track, gated main track, sheet to boom end or quarters, etc)?

[Zen]

Seems like for 30.00 it is something afordable to have in ones bag of tricks, if say you were crossing the big pond with the need to slow down and had few options.

Oh, I just got a notice the Pardleys and thier boat will be here in the Bay Area in April for the sail boat show. Having an open house on thier boat to the public and having some lectures, aimed at couple cruising sound like.  It maybe worth to go for that. Other wise it cost so bloodly much to go look at stuff to spend more money on  ???

http://www.landlpardey.com/News/News_2007_January.html

[Captain Smollett]

Zen,

We need to get you a Press Pass and be the official rep of SailFar.  Man, GET AN INTERVIEW (or invite them to drop by the Tuesday chat sometime!!