Computer for our boats

[No Kin Jones]

  Not to confuse the issue........but, are you aware that 12V power supplies are available for desktop PCs ?
I'm thinking build your own in a baby tower case. (if you've got any room at all) You could have all the bells &
whistles your batteries can stand. But you ain't taking it for a ride to find wifi.
  You'll have to google up a source

Danny

[nowell]

Nowell, is that with keyboard video and mouse?  I'd be interested in a power consumption breakdown showing the system plus the delta on each component including external drives.  At the power levels you are seeing I'd be really interested in one of these, especially if it includes KVM.

When I get mine, ill be happy to run all the tests for you. The one we played with here in the office was just off the overall current draw in server mode (ie no peripherals). When I get mine, ill be sure to do component test and everything. Right now im considering a small 7.5" TFT style display, which in the overall scheme will probably be the largest power draw. Im still tossing around the idea of a small TV/Monitor combo.

This would be clearly for data entry/storage in my case, and not a replacement for one of my many laptops while in port.

[s/v Faith]

Admittedly, I am no fan of laptops in the cockpit underway... actually I am no fan of computer navigation at all.

(High power use, low resistance to moisture, unreliable, and even if it works it serves to dull ones ability to navigate, and rely on the box to think for you...)

  However, WRT installed computer systems... what about the times you want to take the computer ashore to use a wifi hot spot (that is not accessible from the water) or an internet cafe where you connect via a cable.. ?

  Just something to consider.  

[Marc]

I'm basicalyy computer illiterate, but I cruise ebay quit a bit and there is a program (dvd) for 16.95 that you can put into your lapptop and can be used as a chartplotter if you have gps hooked up to it, I have a alptop that will be going on my boat, powered through an inverter.  But ot hook up all these systems what do I need to do?  I'm hearing stories of being able to navigat from inside the cabin if needed.  Would be kinda neat to look at a screen  just to see where you are in the world or some lake.  But how do I do all this?

[AdriftAtSea]

Marc-

If you have a windows-based PC, there is free software that you can use with BSB-format, raster charts available from the NOAA website.  The US charts are free, as is the software.

[nowell]

Speaking in my case, this is not a replacement to a laptop. This would be a ship based system that would keep log entries, positions, maint schedules, prices, etc. One of my laptops would be for internet cafes, DVD's while in port, forum surfing, etc.

This little system, fanless, fairly tight casing, small, small power draw, is PERFECT for keeping that sort of information. How many times have you read about people that have lost a laptop with no backup, no, spare, etc. Lets be honest, laptops are pricy tools, and how many of use are walking around with multiples.

I put this up as a cheap, affordable backup that fits with the small boat.

[dnice]

And I am continually surprised at how often now I see the word "Linux" in computer related posts, especially on what are essentially non-geek websites. :D

I was surprised for a few seconds while reading this thread, but it makes perfect sense that the sailfar mentality of most folks would not have began or ended with sailing :)

I'm a recovering geek... I switched to OSX a few years ago, after countless years of server farming in teh basement  8)

As for onboard computing goes... I think what Faith said about taking your computer off the boat is pretty darn important. Although this type of system would make a good (cheaper) replacement to the $1000+ chartplotters, I just don't think it would be as handy as a laptop (or anything portable) for travel.

My own plan is to just have a laptop, and spend a few extra bucks on a nice padded, aluminum, briefcase type of thing to serve as a faraday cage and provide water-tightness when not in use.
I would prefer to conserve as much energy as possible, but I think the best way to do that would be to just turn it off and go outside :) If I need to do video editing or something of that nature, I just don't think it will be a problem once in a while.

I think $400 would be better spent on something like this waterproof 250gb hard drive.

This is a very cool little PC, I especially like the hardwired ram and of course the small footprint, it would work perfectly in a car or a boat, but I just don't see a need for a built-in unit unless you have a specific purpose to use it for...or unless you're just a geek and have a few extra bucks to play with :D

[dnice]

Speaking in my case, this is not a replacement to a laptop. This would be a ship based system that would keep log entries, positions, maint schedules, prices, etc. One of my laptops would be for internet cafes, DVD's while in port, forum surfing, etc.

This little system, fanless, fairly tight casing, small, small power draw, is PERFECT for keeping that sort of information. How many times have you read about people that have lost a laptop with no backup, no, spare, etc. Lets be honest, laptops are pricy tools, and how many of use are walking around with multiples.

I put this up as a cheap, affordable backup that fits with the small boat.

You read my mind :p
It makes sense when you have a specific use for it.

I would just caution against backing up one piece of electronics with another... Its the data that needs serious backing up.

[Joe Pyrat]

Dnice I tend to agree with you on this, but I do my routes on my computer then transfer them to the several GPS systems.  This is not a problem, battery-wise, while doing the ICW since you are running the engine all the time and the batteries remain well charged.  My major computer use happens when I take a berth in a marina and can use A/C, but I was thinking this little system might be just the thing once I'm down in the Keys and living on a mooring (slips are way to expensive to consider).  I could surf without the need to pack up the laptop and head in to shore.

I also had a couple (2 laptops aboard) of those Pelican cases but they took up entirely too much room.  The problem with their products was the small ones didn't have room for the power brick and there was nothing in between.  Of course it looks like they came out with the in between size right after I bought the big ones  :-[ so that may be less of an issue now.

[newt]

This field is changing so fast it makes my head swim...What do you want a computer aboard for?
1. Navigation
2. Electronic paperwork
3. Communication with the rest of the world ( internet!)
Lets assume #2 and easy fix with the right software. If you attach a GPS and with some good software that takes care of #1 (or does it?) That leaves us with #3- wireless connections with our cyberworld.
I have been looking at long range wireless connections (already reviewed in PS, soon to be tested) and Ham radio connections for the internet. Does anyone use these two solutions?

[dnice]

This field is changing so fast it makes my head swim...What do you want a computer aboard for?
1. Navigation
2. Electronic paperwork
3. Communication with the rest of the world ( internet!)
Lets assume #2 and easy fix with the right software. If you attach a GPS and with some good software that takes care of #1 (or does it?) That leaves us with #3- wireless connections with our cyberworld.
I have been looking at long range wireless connections (already reviewed in PS, soon to be tested) and Ham radio connections for the internet. Does anyone use these two solutions?

I don't use or have experience with Ham connections...but from what I understand, it is only suitable for email/text. IMHO spending $1000 on a radio and then another $1000 on a modem is not an option just to receive/send email.
Of course, there are plenty of reasons to get an SSB/HAM unit...so maybe the expense of the modem can be justified individually.

For WiFi...you can build your own Yagi antenna (google yagi) that can receive in ranges up to 1-2 miles or so... thats pretty good for any anchorage or marina. There are also plenty of pre-built yagi's on the market. All you need is a good WiFi card with an external antenna option (built in wifi is useless in this case).

The only other option is wireless connection from your cellphone provider, which of course, has monthly fee's and will only work in your coverage area.(IE: not an option!!)

I still can't find a good reason for an onboard computer... I am not trying to be a naysayer or whatever...

I just don't see any reason why a portable computer shouldn't do everything you need/plus more...and can be kept safe when not in use.
The expense of it is the same (for a low end laptop brand new, or any used portable) as an onboard unit. maintenance or whatever will be just the same, and infact cheaper on a laptop that has parts available online or anywhere, as opposed to a proprietary unit.

I can see two benefits to having an onboard computer.
Energy usage...and that is only an issue if you are not equiped for long-term cruising.
Or, A cheaper replacement for a chartreader/plotter/gps unit, which has its own separate set of issues...

I don't mean to be a grump, I just think it falls into the same category of watermakers, icemakers, electronic navigation, autopilots, refridgeration and all that kinda stuff.....So obviously its an individual decision, there are plenty of people here who have those sorts of things on their boat, and I would love to have all of thee above...But if its a simple idea of energy or money, a laptop or other portable device just makes more sense.

[Joe Pyrat]

Can't find a good reason to have a computer onboard?

I use my onboard computer for plotting my daily moves.  I can download the latest updated charts from NOAA for free so when I started hearing, for example, the entrance to the Alligator River had changed and was confusing I downloaded the latest chart, laid in a route and felt fairly confident I cold make the entrance without any trouble.  It also comes in handy for planning bridge approaches when the bridges only open at certain times or determining when slack tides exist or what the tides are doing at any giver time or date.  Instead of trying to find the nearest tide table I just r-click my position and tell it to open the nearest tides or currents.  This is handy when traversing shallow areas so you can time your passage through the area.  This doesn't even take into consideration all the weather information that I can access or things like Skipper Bob's updates.  I made my boat cards online while sitting on the boat in Beaufort then borrowed the courtesy car and picked them up at Staples.  I can even teleconference with my Spouse.  Then there's the entertainment value, playing DVDs, music, games, etc.   Using MapQuest or a similar service to locate repair facilities, nearby grocery stores, etc.  Looking up repair, troubleshooting info, etc. on my onboard equipment.  This list could go on and on and on.  It just may be the most useful piece of equipment onboard.

[dnice]

Can't find a good reason to have a computer onboard?

I use my onboard computer for plotting my daily moves.  I can download the latest updated charts from NOAA for free so when I started hearing, for example, the entrance to the Alligator River had changed and was confusing I downloaded the latest chart, laid in a route and felt fairly confident I cold make the entrance without any trouble.  It also comes in handy for planning bridge approaches when the bridges only open at certain times or determining when slack tides exist or what the tides are doing at any giver time or date.  Instead of trying to find the nearest tide table I just r-click my position and tell it to open the nearest tides or currents.  This is handy when traversing shallow areas so you can time your passage through the area.  This doesn't even take into consideration all the weather information that I can access or things like Skipper Bob's updates.  I made my boat cards online while sitting on the boat in Beaufort then borrowed the courtesy car and picked them up at Staples.  I can even teleconference with my Spouse.  Then there's the entertainment value, playing DVDs, music, games, etc.   Using MapQuest or a similar service to locate repair facilities, nearby grocery stores, etc.  Looking up repair, troubleshooting info, etc. on my onboard equipment.  This list could go on and on and on.  It just may be the most useful piece of equipment onboard.

Joe - I am not questioning the use of a computer on board... Its the built-in, on-board computer that I am having trouble imagining.

All of the things you listed above where done on a portable computer right???

I just don't see the use in hard-wiring a computer system into your boat....

Again, I understand power issues on a small boat... I understand space issues on a small boat...I understand navigation/general usage issues on a small boat.... But if these issues are equally satisfied by a portable computer, then I cannot justify wiring a computer into my boat.
I just do not see these issues being better served by a built-in computer than a portable one. This is obviously my own personal opinion, I do not mean to say anybody is wrong or whatever... I just think there is more to consider here than just whether or not it would 'work'. Of course it would work....

If I am off base here, please let me know.... I know this discussion started about this specific computer, which I would agree is the perfect computer to have aboard...IF you can justify having a computer built-into your boat.

[skylark]

I can see some benefit to a processor mounted somewhere in a secure place and a wireless keyboard which can be moved around to where you need it.  You can drop a wireless keyboard and not worry that the hard drive will quit.

Another thing that makes the built in computer more interesting is if you install a dedicated battery bank and solar panel with enough power so that the processor can always be on. 

Then you can add peripherals like a gps or barometer.  Maybe write a script to write a log of location, pressure, and copy your typed text log for the day, and automatically send it out as an email when the computer finds a wifi connection.

[nowell]

Exactly my thoughts Paul. With something like this, there is no ammount of things you "could" do. You can have the monitor mounted somewhere near your nav station, or on a wall, with this little boxed tucked up somewhere behind the scenes. Wireless mouse/keyboard that are easily replaced if damaged. Access to run your navigation, paperwork, etc etc. You could even have it hooked up to your ham to give the automated updates as you see fit. Without the wireless on it draws very little power. Most of us would use wireless at the marina anyway, where we usually have access to shore power.

Again, what I found attractive is the small form factor, the small power, and the fact that its a fanless, sealed setup. Easily hidable, yet fully featured for what a "typical" cruiser would use it for.

The laptops are great for your movies, around town, whatever. This is not a replacement but a good alternate to a thousand dollar laptop while underway.

[newt]

I am typing this on a small laptop in a remote location on wireless.  I am sold on laptops...but could we get one that is waterproof and resistant to damage if dropped? What are those Toshibas like?
As for built in- it seems that everything in a sailboat corrodes. Maybe a watertight box with a dehumidifier/airclearer build in.
As for OS- I love Ubuntu- if I can just get a solid wireless program with it.  So far I have stayed with MS so I can wirelessly plug in.
Hey, what about putting that wireless antenna up on the top of the mast? What type of coverage do you get then?

[dnice]

Hey, what about putting that wireless antenna up on the top of the mast? What type of coverage do you get then?

Yagi's are directional, you gotta point it towards the signal, so a mast mount wouldn't work too well.
I don't know much about non-directional (omni-directional??) antenna's, but to get the same range as you would from a yagi would make the antenna pretty big and probably not a good option for a mast mount. Yagi's get their great range because the signal is concentrated into a single direction, instead of all that power being lost in a 360' arc.

here is a pretty good link to building your own yagi

I have seen a similarly built one get a full signal from an access point at the local college, which is about a half mile away from here (no idea which building it was in  :)).

[AdriftAtSea]

One of the simplest and cheapest directional WIFI antennas to build is the Pringles Cantenna... about $10 for all the materials or so.

[newt]

I was impressed by this product as showcased in "burning man". But I don't have it yet so I don't know how it will work in real life. Practical Sailor has promised us a review.
http://www.5milewifi.com/

[AdriftAtSea]

Don't believe that device is legal in the US... given that WiFi has a power limit of 200 mW IIRC.