Smallest cruiser that will keep a couple happy.....

[Captain Smollett]

And John- things have changed- these pics will stick

COOL!

Now, if they could get all my links to CB's cool posts over the years to still work ....  ;) ;D

[Frank]

on the lighter side.......teenagers "in love" could be totally happy on a Montgomery 15 !

But thats another story   ;D

[Kettlewell]

Wow--lots of hard work went into the Meridian. Nicely done! One thing that has been touched on here, but I will re-emphasize. I have this dream of getting an 18-foot Marshall catboat some day and using it to gunkhole my way up and down the East Coast, using sail whenever possible, never having to worry about where I might anchor with her centerboard. But, I wouldn't want to take that boat offshore to Bermuda and down to the Caribbean. I myself don't need much at all in a boat. I'm perfectly happy using a camping stove, taking cold showers in the cockpit, and paddling ashore in an inflatable kayak. But, I know some other people that are very large, and they have a very large boat (50 feet I think). They make their boat look small. When they come on my boats they have a tough time fitting down the companionway and usually stay in the cockpit. Their dinghy is a 17-foot fiberglass skiff with a 25HP outboard. They wouldn't want to go any smaller. When I was young three of us sailed to Labrador and back on a 29 footer. It was fine for two of us, but my friend stands about 6' 4" and was always either in a stoop down below or cracking his skull on something. He needed a bigger boat. My point is there is no universal "smallest cruiser that will keep a couple happy." Depends on the couple and what they want to do with the boat.

[Captain Smollett]

I have this dream of getting an 18-foot Marshall catboat some day and using it to gunkhole my way up and down the East Coast, using sail whenever possible, never having to worry about where I might anchor with her centerboard. But, I wouldn't want to take that boat offshore to Bermuda and down to the Caribbean.

That sounds like a pretty awesome adventure.

A friend of mine lived aboard and cruised from the Chesapeake to Florida, across to the islands, back to FL and back north on a 18 ft Drascombe Lugger (open boat).  I'm not sure how often he did this circuit, but I gathered it was at least twice.

From his stories, it was a very different trip than the ones where folks are larger boats motor down the ICW as quickly as possible to get to FL.  So much water missed that way...

[DarrenC]

When I was young three of us sailed to Labrador and back on a 29 footer. It was fine for two of us, but my friend stands about 6' 4" and was always either in a stoop down below or cracking his skull on something. He needed a bigger boat.

I'm the same height and in exactly the same place.  Since the size of vessel that would allow me to properly stand up is beyond my current reach, the thought keeps returning to my mind that maybe I would be better off with strictly sitting only headroom, which would eliminate the urge to stand and stoop. As long as i can sit or recline with my book and a beverage and be warm and dry I'm living like a king!

[Captain Smollett]

I've neglected to mention explicitly in this thread that four of us (and a cat) lived on an Alberg 30 for three years. 

I think a 30 footer for a couple is HUGE.   ;)    Add to that that most "modern" thirty footers are huge by CCA era standards for LOA, and well...

"Space" is, in my opinion, over-rated - especially on a boat.  More space = more junk to fill it, or it's just empty space.

It is a VERY personal decision; on that point I won't argue.  My wife and I, were it just us, would have looked for something in the 26-28 ft range, again, "small for their LOA" CCA era boats like a Triton.

We could easily provision for three months (or more) on the A-30 for the four of us.  But, there's more in what we would NOT be carrying.  As I emptied my boat at the boat yard last haul-out, I was astounded at how much that boat could hold.

The issue is not "not enough space," the issues are "space for WHAT" and how that space is efficiently used.

As we have discussed here a lot (and it bears repeating from time to time), a boat is not a house.  What needs to be taken aboard and how those things need to be stored are VERY different.  Too many US 'cruisers' try to make the boat just like their land-home.  And thus the "myth" is born that a couple NEEDS 40+ feet of boat to do it.

I recently talked to a fellow who mentioned he'd like to live on a boat, and mentioned this to his wife.  He then went on to say that she likes "stuff;" hanging stuff on walls, collecting knick-knacks, and the like.  THAT would be the problem for living aboard...extending the house-living lifestyle to living aboard.

To me (personally), there's a degree of comfort in "Spartan."  Complexity and clutter create stress.  Small and simple "suits" me.  It would not suit that dude's wife, and for him to get her aboard for an extended period, I guess it WOULD require a huge boat.

But there's another group...those that think big is needed just because someone else said bigger is needed.  I'm reminded of a conversation between a lady who had planned going full time cruising and another that was at the beginning planning stage.  The one said to the other, "We did everything right...we even had the right boat...a 4x something" (I don't recall the actual boat).

Ugh.  So sad.  Another "failed dream."

The second lady was likewise convinced she NEEDED a large boat to be safe, comfortable and happy.  Her family (of four) bought a 38 ft cat, and they planned their circumnav around "rallies."  I have no idea the status of their plans as I've lost touch with them.

But, I will mention that she was the same lady that acted like I peed on her food the day I mentioned that we did not have refrigeration on board.  Her "fear" of lacking such "modern conveniences" bubbled to the top, and the conversation was over.  She asked me, "How do you EAT?"  She did not ask, "How do you preserve food."  She somehow associated the basic survival act of eating with the 'convenience' of refrigeration.

THAT's the dream killer.  The notion that this, that or the other thing is NECESSARY, and don't you DARE try sailing / cruising without them.

My answer to her question was, "We eat just fine."  After a few minutes, I tried to explain to her my thoughts on fear and dependency when it comes to 'survival.'  In the end, though, she just could not comprehend living without refrigeration, and the thought of having a boat without a fridge could no way be acceptable for living aboard.

[Frank]

Great post Capt S     Some may find an engel IS needed for their use and requirements...but that is so easily done by a 120W panel.      Grog to ya

[Captain Smollett]

maybe I would be better off with strictly sitting only headroom, which would eliminate the urge to stand and stoop. As long as i can sit or recline with my book and a beverage and be warm and dry I'm living like a king!

Interesting that you mention that, because I JUST a few minutes ago made that same thought.  You might be better served by abandoning the idea of 'standing head room' and go for sitting headroom for exactly the reason you mention.

Headroom has to come from somewhere: it's got to come from freeboard, draft or cabin trunk height...or a combination of any two or all three.

No way around that.

Sure, you could have an Ariel with 6' 6" head room via a tall cabin...and it would both look ridiculous AND not be very seaworthy (too much top hamper is what the old school guys would call it).

To get a fair balance between those three design metrics, a 'big boat' (by sailfar standards) would be needed.

But, going the OTHER way...I have a boat with "sitting headroom" and we've sailed a lot of miles on her.  It's "different."  But, it can be done, and done effectively.

More than one way to skin a cat.

[Captain Smollett]

Great post Capt S     Some may find an engel IS needed for their use and requirements...but that is so easily done by a 120W panel.      Grog to ya

And that's fair.

What I did not state clearly was that she did not even give it that much thought.  It was a very knee jerk response, based in fear (that I could see written all over her face), "How can you EAT?" says a lot.

A skipper weighing the pros and cons in outfitting their boat is a far different thing than just assuming you HAVE to have a fridge (or GPS, or radar or whatever else) just because it's assumed that you have to have it.  That's tautology at its finest.   ;D

I guess it's the fear factor that bugged me more that the merits of refrigeration or not.  She did not even ask me, "Ok, so how do you solve the problems that refrigeration solves?  What other options are there?"  Nope.  It was just..."OMG!  No FRIDGE?  NO WAY WE CAN LIVE LIKE THAT!!!!!"

Had to be there, I guess....

And for the record, I have coveted an Engel on board Gaelic Sea many times.  It's still not off the table.  It's just a lower priority than some of the other mods in process.

[Frank]

Note to all: there are some wonderful historic threads and posts here if time is taken to look. This is a great adventure on 25ft http://sailing-sumatra.livejournal.com/
Then there is CJ's cruise, Craigs cruise on Faith and many others.......all on 26ft or less! 

[Captain Smollett]

Note to all: there are some wonderful historic threads and posts here if time is taken to look. This is a great adventure on 25ft http://sailing-sumatra.livejournal.com/
Then there is CJ's cruise, Craigs cruise on Faith and many others.......all on 26ft or less! 

To linkify a bit of that "couples on small boats" info:

The beginning of Craig and Rose's Ariel (26) thread:  http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,72.0.html

CJ and Laura headed out on a Meridian 26: http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,2504.0.html

Nick and his SO, on a Compac 23:  http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,2818.0.html

Mike and Mary refitting a Morgan 28: http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,91.0.html

I know we're leaving a bunch out, but there's a start.

The gist to me sure seems to be said quite well by lots of enthusiasm and lots of smiles in the photos!

[Grime]

Each couple will have to answer that question themselves. No one can answer that for them.  It's like buying a house. Some feel that they have to have 5000 + sq feet for them to be happy and others feel 1000 sq foot home is to big. I also feel that some buy larger boat for more of a social thing.  When we were cruising on our 22' Starwind we found that the big boat owners would invite us over as a novelty thing more so than just wanting to get to know another couple. 

Like Charlie said. "Look at the cute day sailor". 

[Kettlewell]

A funny thing about headroom is that it isn't necessarily how tall the people are that makes the difference. Our 30-footer was completely flush-decked with no doghouse (I loved that flat working deck!) meaning no standing headroom below, but my wife at 5' 2" could almost stand in places--drove her nuts! Me, at 5' 10" standing was hopeless so I didn't bother and I learned to move around quickly in a stoop and then sit when I got someplace. I didn't mind the low headroom at all. After spending several years cruising fulltime between New England and the Bahamas and back, and having mostly a wonderful time, my wife basically put her foot down and said it was either get a new boat with more headroom or a new wife. The "almost standing" was worse than no standing, particularly in the galley. I must admit that I have never liked cooking sitting down on smaller boats.

[Frank]

If you truly break down what is needed for "comfort" in order for two people to spend time aboard....I honestly feel there are multiple choices in the 26-28ft range.  Two settee's so each can lay back and read on rainy days. A comfortable Vberth. A private head. A decent galley. Standing headroom. Moderate storage. Yep....MANY boats in the 26-28ft range!!! Add a dodger and bimini, an Engel if you like cold beer, a GPS and charts....off you go.
The obvious huge benifit with this size range has been often disscussed previously here. Anchor wieght is lower making buying a good one much cheaper as well as retreiving it SO much easier! Bottom jobs are a 3rd the effort and expense! Sails are SO much easier to handle, to reef and oh ya...cheaper to replace. The list goes on and on. Typically shallower draft = more anchorages and less stressful cruising. (yes...you CAN cruise the Keys and Bahamas with 6ft+ draft...but I ask "WHY"?) Try waxing the hull on a 33fter...then a 26.  HUGE difference.
I've had exellent "couples cruises" on a 20ft Flicka, 23's, 25's, 26 on up.  The "majic" to me is that 26-28ft range for 2 for several months away.