Snapdragon 26

[Jim_ME]

Welcome aboard, Andrea.

You are practically a neighbor. So I can relate to the snow and cold issue. A few more weeks, though, and it will be a great climate for working on boats.

Will you be sailing on Lake Champlain? I sailed on a friend's family boat out of Mallet's Bay years ago, and always enjoyed that area.

As you may have already read, the other SD26 owners have been very helpful in providing information, and I'm sure that you will find the same support. If you (using the "salami technique") pick a problem, describe it and if possible post some photos of your existing conditions, you'll get some ideas and suggestions to consider--and encouragement. :)

Looking forward to hearing more about your projects and progress. Grog to you to help get you started.

-Jim

PS: To pick up on Jake's references to the class as monsters, I guess that would make yours a Vermonster....  ;)

[s/v Faith]

Hello All - thank you for dedicating something to the USA Snapdragons - I found this forum via the UK Snapdragon Site. I am an owner of a SD 26 - purchased about 5 years ago and sitting in my yard awaiting some work to be done. I am trying to get motivated to tackle some tough projects. Snow still on the ground here in Northern Vermont so too cold to do much fiberglassing. I would love to hear from other SD 26 Owners as I have numerous "problems" to solve and nary another vessel nearby to compare notes. Used to have an O'day 22 and had a much easier time finding information! Oh well, thats what happens when you choose a boat for its' unique character! Andrea

I am very glad you found us!

  Welcome aboard!  ;D

[VermontSnappie]

Thanks so much Jim - yes I am on Lake Champlain - in Charlotte - Point Bay Marina. Nice place, Malletts Bay, havent made much progress sailing that far with my family when the boat was in the water. We just liked puttering around and having picnics and enjoying the scenery and camping overnight. She sailed one season here when we moved here from Mass. in 2006. Then a nasty storm caught her overnight at the Marina Dock and made a mess of things on the deck and the furler got trashed and gave me the "incentive" to fix much of what hadn't been touched in years. She was purchased from a British gentleman who originally purchased her in 1969 and she was either sailed or delivered to Ipswich Massachusetts where he lived. He was the only owner of the boat until he passed away. She hadn't been sailed in 7 years and what a collection of stuff we pulled out of her. I liked the classic interior and "tubby" appearance. Having three children and dogs we needed a larger boat. I took a chance purchasing such a boat that needed lots of work. However, she seemed so sturdy compared to my O'Day.

Hey, I like the name Vermonster - you need a "monster" on the lake sometimes. I will try to get things together and post some "queries" and photos. Right now my boat has all hardware off the deck, all windows removed as they leaked terribly and of course those "cockpit hatches" are a mere memory of rotten wood. So, a big tarp is covering all, awaiting the grinder and LOTS of fiberglass.

I need advice on replacing the rubbing strake, which is mostly rotted away. It all through bolted and glassed over on the inside. I haven't any success in fixing the window frames, they are seriously corroded so am considering what to do with the windows. My husband hates the blue deck color, so considering painting after rebedding all the hardware and whatnot.

Time is short as we would like to get this boat back in the water before my children are grown. I have 4 years before they head to college. Time is flying by! Enough rambling, thanks for starting the forum and look forward to posting. Andrea

[VermontSnappie]

Hi Ken - like your photos - I have hull #170 here in Vermont on Lake Champlain. Boats up on the lawn right now, without windows, or deck hardware or much of anything since I attempted a "refit" two years ago. Anyhow, glad to see your photos, looks like mine - but in much, much nicer shape! Been conversing with UK folk for a while but nice to see USA SD owners getting together. Andrea

[tomwatt]

Glad you made it aboard!
Love the look of these boats, wish you well in getting momentum going on your project.
I know it's a struggle for me to get things done, as I tend to find it all too easy to just sit in the cockpit, start to relax, and then just melt into "oneness" with the boat. Hard to get anything done when you've become "part of the ship, part of the crew..."

[Jim_ME]

You're welcome, Andrea. The last time that I sailed Lake Champlain was in your area in the fall of 2000. Went to the Shelburne Museum and the Cabot Cheese factory.

As Tom wrote, momentum is a big part of it. for me, when a project has been sitting it is an effort to re-kickstart the project. Keep envisioning how much fun you will have when you get it back in the water.

It may help to commit to a goal and time frame, such as this boat is going in on (say early June). Then decide what is essential and set priorities starting with the essential items, and be prepared to postpone the others to the future. Then work backwards to set a schedule. It's just a matter of time and effort. If your kids want to sail, ask for their help on the project.

I like to bring a radio out to the boat to listen to music or news. Make the environment fun.

As far as the individual issues...

If the roller furler is too expensive to repair and replacing it is too expensive for now. Why not use your headstay and hank-on jib(s). Find a decent used sail(s) online, Craigslist, EBay or from a used sail source like Bacon Sails. (I prefer the simplicity of hank-on jibs myself)

For the aluminum window frame - Is the corrosion bad enough to weaken it beyond reuse? If it is cosmetic, can you clean it up? On mine the frame has been painted/coated by a previous owner.
Maybe take the frame(s) to METALWORKS, Inc., Burlington, VT  
http://metalworksvermont.com/
To see about having them repaired or refabricated?

Rub rail - Mine appears to have been replaced with something like this...
PVC RUB RAIL WHITE 1.5"
http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/pvc-rub-rail-white-1.5-20-lengths-*ups*-158347-/4,14842.html

Take a look at what charlie is working on for inspiration.
http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php/topic,3236.msg35569.html#msg35569

You take photos too and post them to share your boat issues and progress and to get other ideas.

Go for it!

-Jim

[VermontSnappie]

Thanks Jim for the encouragement! Every day I look at the lake from my window. It is calling me. I can see sails in the distance....Anyhow, I am so glad to have found this little forum. Sometimes it is hard not having loads of others working on their same boat and sharing their war stories and successes.

I pumped out endless gallons of water when it finally melted inside the boat a couple of weeks ago that had poured in over the last two winters. The water came three inches up the "head" doorway. Frozen solid. My  leaky "tarp" and lack of windows really did her in this winter. Seeing the icebergs in her was so disheartening and the scope of work ahead just about had me posting an ad on craiglist "free boat" to take her away and abandon my hopes of sailing again. Then I decided that would be a cop out and not teaching a good example for my kids. So, in earnest,  I have started on her and have completed one window re-installation. Decided to go back to the old frames after I discovered the lexan I planned to bolt on as one continuous window wasn't cut right and wouldnt fit on the sides of the boat. I did take the frames to a local shop for some fixing, they werent corroded as badly as I had thought once I sanded and polished them up. After reading glowing reports about "butyl rubber tape"  I ended up using it for bedding the lexan since I couldn't get replacement gaskets for each window 'pane'. So far, only one tiny leak around one of the bolts - miracle! I didn't use interscrews, but rather nuts and bolts to secure the windows. The acorn nuts were so costly I just used plain old nuts. Looks okay.

Waiting to do second window when the frame is fixed up. I think I will take your advice and go with the hank on jib. I have to convert the former furler sail to a hank on. The rub rail shall be interesting to tackle. I was a bit horrified to discover just how much a rubber rub rail will set me back as that rail is pretty substantial in size.

Looking to find a couple of winches, some ubolts and some track for the genoa, whatever you call it. I stripped all the hardware off and now need to replace just the basics.

Did you ever fix your plywood cockpit seats? I seem to recall talk of them in a post? Mine have rotted completely and figure on just doing some quick fiberglass ones to keep out the water. Esthetics aren't going to be a consideration, just function.....

Well, I will try to post some pictures and will check back now and then when I remember....

Andrea

[Jim_ME]

Hi Andrea, You're welcome. It's inspiring to see you repairing a boat that has been sitting and making headway toward getting it back in service.

That was one benefit of having a boat in a yard, since there was the social benefit of making friends with other boat owners around you who were getting their boats ready to launch.

On some of my boats, I've had a bronze bilge drain with a plug, even a half inch size will keep the water from building up. With the snow and winds, water can often find a way in past the tarp and giving it a way out has worked for me. If you don't have a drain (or want to install one), you can always pull the hose off the lowest through-hull and leave it open for the winter (or even remove the through-hull fitting to lower the "drain" point), and keep water from getting any higher than that.

This is just a quick reply for now, since I'm heading out for the evening soon.

Best wishes for your work in progress!

-Jim  

[Captain Smollett]

Then I decided that would be a cop out and not teaching a good example for my kids.

Grog for sticking with it for a variety of reasons.

I believe you are going to end up with a beautiful boat that will give you and your family a tremendous amount of enjoyment.

[Jim_ME]

Hi Andrea, I agree with John...kudos to you for sticking with it and keep that vision of enjoying the boat in mind for inspiration.

Glad to learn that you are able to reuse the old cabin portlight windows and frames, at least for now.

As far as the cap nuts... Hamilton Marine seems to have some reasonable prices (about $30 for a box of 100 in stainless steel)

My SD26 does have some rough pieces of plywood covering the cockpit locker openings, so I will have to make some. I haven't given much thought yet, to what material to use. (I've just picked up a 20-foot daysailer/overnighter and for now my first priority is to get that ready to put in.)

I agree that the main thing for now is function over beauty, and to just get the boat in and use it, and making other improvements in the future. (Although the permanent cockpit locker lids may be a nice rainy day project that you can do after the boat is launched, once you have the measurements of the opening, etc.)

My friend's family boat was kept on a mooring (on Mallet's Bay, where there was a mooring field). That could save you considerable cost compared to renting a slip.  

I just saw this mooring for sale in your area. He is asking quite a bit for it, but it depends on how old and worn it is. It's the right size for the SD26.  Maybe the price is negotiable, and you can price a mooring setup and make a reasonable offer. I've seen comparable sized used mooring setups for about half that price in this area.

It's been a cold and rainy few days here, and probably in your area too, but next week it is forecast to be warmer and dry...better weather for working on the boats.

Good luck with your repairs.  :)
-Jim

[Captain Smollett]

Jim,

Just out of curiosity, what are your mooring/anchoring laws up there?  Can you only lay a mooring in a designated mooring field?  Do you have to pay a fee or have a permit to lay a "mooring?"

I laid my own "mooring" in an anchorage and left the boat for 18 months.  I used regular anchors (per the Pardeys description in Cost Conscious Cruiser and as outlined in Eric Hiscock's Voyaging Under Sail).  It worked great and I could buoy the lines for day sails and short trips.

One of the nice things about this system was that when I left that state, I took my setup with me.  It took two hours to pull everything, but I did it all myself.  Both anchors were about 30 lbs or less.  Another nice thing was that total cost was well below the $700 for that setup in Craig's List (I already had one of the anchors).

The two anchors in my 'mooring' setup are my #2 and #3 cruising anchors, so I did not have $$ tied up in 'special' equipment.  I always have my 'mooring' gear with me.

So, if there are fees/permits for laying a "mooring," but one can anchor at-will, I suggest giving this method some consideration.  It's VERY secure, relatively low-cost and portable (much more so than single heavy-weight based moorings).

Some Holding Stats:

Lay on this setup for 18 months
Tidal waters, 5-6 ft range, with 2-3 knot currents
Several strong blows, including at least two storms carrying at least 50 knots of wind.

I can provide more details if interested.

[Jim_ME]

John (and Andrea), My experience is that the coastal mooring regulations are administered by the municipality through its harbormaster. Here is an example from Cape Elizabeth, which is overseen by the Harbormaster in Portland, ME. It includes standards for the mooring itself, which are typical for the anchorages in Casco Bay under the Portland Harbormaster (these sizes are lighter than I have used, so assume are minimum sizes [see on reread that they do say this, and for seasonal use only]). I've always used the more conservative Hamilton Marine mooring size standards.

When I lived in Downeast Maine (East of Acadia/Mount Desert Island), the mooring regulation/admin was much more informal than (more affluent and regulated) Southern ME. Many of the boats there are working vessels in traditional harbors, and I think there is the philosophy that the boat owners can manage their own moorings (and care as much about their boat as anyone else.)

From my limited experience regulations for lake moorings vary by community, and may be the responsibility of the shorefront (home/camp) owner, and may be limited/controlled by access to the water.

Lake Champlain is such a large lake that it may have more regulations than the smaller lakes here in Maine. When I sailed on my friend's family 30-foot boat years ago, it was moored in a field in Mallets Bay, but I was not involved in any of the mooring arrangements, so don't know what the regulations were at that time. I also chartered a sailboat from a marina in Shelburne Bay (just south of Burlington). The last time I was there, about a decade ago, it was to stay at a family camp in the Southern part of the lake. I took my hosts sailing on a neighbor's 25-foot sailboat, which was moored off their camp (as were many sail and power boats). I suspect that many of the communities near the lake have public access at a nearby shorefront park (many with boat ramps), and that there are mooring fields available there. Andrea, I'm sure is more familiar than I about this.

I had what you describe in mind when I recently bought a Bruce 44-lb anchor that was for sale very inexpensively. It's much larger than needed for any boat that I own, but I thought that it might be useful as a storm anchor, or one to leave a boat on for a time. The last few years I've moored my boat (the Corinthian, this season I hope) at the south end of a local large lake. At the North shore (about 16 miles away) is a state park with campground and swimming beach, etc. In the past, I have camped out there with friends and anchored off the beach to keep a boat there for daysailing. I did put a small buoy on the anchor rode and left it in place and set to use, like a mooring, and that worked very well. The boat was only there while I was using the park, and it all seemed to be fine with the park, but I doubt that I could have put a permanent mooring there. I'm hoping to do that again this season.

My home mooring is a 200-lb mushroom anchor, on which I had kept my previous 18-foot sailboat, and plan to put the Corinthian on this season. The lakes are inland and usually doesn't get the kind of storms that the ocean does, and the fetch is limited so waves do not get as high, so I feel that the mooring does not have to be sized as conservatively.

I found two used 200-lb cast iron mushroom anchors that had very little wear on them, each for under $100 (less than half the cost of a new one then). When I was looking at the prices on Hamilton's yesterday, I saw that the new mooring anchor prices had increased by about 50% in a couple years. The value of the dollar is relatively weaker (imported anchors), and the commodity price of steel is up (domestic anchors).

My feeling is that if you can buy a used mooring anchor or complete mooring setup reasonably, than that is the way to go. I set my 200-lb mooring myself and I think I can pull it up (vertically, albeit with some difficulty) to relocate or service it.      

Here's a couple moorings currently for sale in MA for what I would consider reasonable prices (or nearly so)...
200-lb anchor anchor in Mint condition. Barely used. $150 (in Joe's area).
200-lb anchor setup for $400 (although older, so condition may be an issue).
300-lb anchor setup for $400 (although the 3/8 chain is light and a heavier bottom chain should be added)

Anyway, these are in the neighborhood of half of that one for sale in Vermont. If you can wait awhile, you may find an even better bargain.

In these more strictly-regulated/administered mooring areas in Southern Maine, if you anchor for too long, and it is really functioning as a mooring, the Harbormaster will very likely ask (demand) that you get a mooring and an assigned spot, permit, and inspection. This was the case with the SD26 that I got from NH. The PO had kept it on anchors, and the harbormaster had eventually gotten after him. In that case it had been anchored for months. When I talked to the harbormaster he explained that it would not be fair to the other boat/mooring owners if he did not treat them all the same under the regulations, which I certainly understood.

I'm thinking that if I get ambitious and want to put a boat into the ocean this season (in addition to the lake), I could probably use the Hurley 18 and could just trailer-sail, maybe leaving it in and anchored temporarily if my plans called for it. My thinking is that if I just want to sail (day sail) then the big lake is fine. It might only make sense to launch the boat in the ocean in order to do some overnighting and modest cruising for a few days at a time--but that would mean anchoring at different places, so that works. Trailering the boat up to Penboscot Bay to combine sailing/overnighting with the Folk Festival, is a possibility.

I have a mooring in Down East Maine (the block and bottom chain, at least), so trailer sailing to it is an option. It is near my sister's cottage, but they have moved to Southern CA and now rent out their cottage in the summer and fall (sometimes staying there a couple weeks themselves). I have picked up a pickup camper which I could park on their roomy property, so that if the weather is bad part of the time I would have a place to stay on land with 120V AC for lights, etc. It's about a 4 hour drive there for me, and so far, the cost and effort involved to do it has not outweighed the ease of sailing locally on the lake.

I could perhaps see a scenario where if you purchased a boat in another area and had to get it out of a slip, and could not immediately sail the boat home, that the two-anchor temporary mooring would be an option. Or if the boat was in a place where you wanted to sail it later (say down South somewhere for us Northerners), and it did not make sense to invest in a permanent mooring (or was not possible/allowed).

However, I have found it to be a bit unnerving to have a boat moored so far away, such that it is not possible to check on it as often as I normally would. I was spoiled by for years having a mooring 1 mile from my house, so that I could be from doorstep to aboard in about 10 minutes. I remember reading the thread awhile back about anchoring long-term, and have not taken the time to reread it, but I may fall into the group that has difficulty achieving much of a comfort level with remote anchoring (or even mooring) where I could not check on the boat every couple weeks or so. If there was a local person that I trusted to check on it for me, then that would be okay.  

The concept that I continue to lean toward--even more so now that the price of fuel has gone up so dramatically--is the two-(cruising)boat scheme. One here for the summer and fall and one kept in a place that is warm in winter. At the cost of some of the boats that I've seen (own), I could not trailer the boat down once, nor motor down the ICW (never mind the time that takes, if the goal is to just get there). The typical thing to do is to pay to have the boat stored in a boatyard, and that might well be more economical and effort/hassle free than trailering or motoring. The frugal part of me wants to see if I could barter to store some Southern person's boat in my yard over the winter in exchange for storing my boat down South somewhere over the summer/fall. It seems like a potentially mutually beneficial arrangement, since this is generally regarded as a great place to sail in the summer/fall. Having the boat setup on a float-off trailer setup, and a tabernacle mast setup (both of which the SD26 does) would complete the package.

It's how to work out the rest of one's pre-retirement working life around the two-location concept, that is the most difficult. I did meet a man here that worked in a Maine boatyard during the busy late spring/summer/early fall seasons, and then in another boatyard in Florida during the busy late fall/winter/early spring seasons there. Seemed like an ideal arrangement. Of course, you'd want to have some time off to cruise and enjoy each area. Or maybe one could, with low enough living expenses, work 8 or 9 months here, and take off the 3 or 4 months over the winter to go South and cruise... The question always seems to come down to how do I get there from here...?

[Captain Smollett]

Split off part of the mooring discussion to this thread.

[shellback]

 Welcome aboard Andrea!

It's great to hear about another SD26 getting fixed up. 

We just got in our third sail of the season today in a good 20+ knot wind out of the SE in Milwaukee.  We had the full main and a working jib up.  It made for a comfortable sail in a Snapdragon.  I think you made a good choice for a boat.

Looking forward to reading more about your new boat adventures.

Ken

[VermontSnappie]

Hello All! Still haven't made it back onto the lake - family things came first. I am determined to finish this spring. I even started a blog just to make myself feel as though I was making progress (slow). I have abandoned the idea of cosmetic upgrades and just want to make her sail worthy again. Lots of fasteners and deck hardware await. Still too cold to epoxy and fill in holes. I managed to get the windows back in and they are dry. Used lots of butyl tape (crummy RV kind, before I found the good stuff online), and fitted those old frames back in....Here's a link to my blog. Haven't put too many photos up yet. Was in the process  then my computer decided to corrupt the IPHOTO library.

http://vermontsnapdragon26.blogspot.com/

Andrea

[Tim]

Good job Andrea, both on the blog and the progress. One has to learn patience with boats  ;) I know only too well. Looking forward to more.

Tim

[Jim_ME]

Hi Andrea, Glad to get the update. Let me join Tim in congrats for what you have accomplished. It must feel good to have gotten the large windows/portlights back in. I am also planning to get a boat on my local big lake, Sebago. I have also thought about starting a blog myself, as a way to share and perhaps make it seem less of an isolated solitary experience. Have taken a glance at your blog and will read it more thoroughly soon. Your Snapdragon looks to be in much better shape than mine, especially the interior. Finally the long winter is over and spring has arrived, and working on boats outside is possible. I am eager to get to it.
-Jim

[Snapdragon]

In response to your question about mast raising systems Andrea, I use what has to be the simplest, cheapest system ever.  It consists of two seven ft lengths of 3/4 inch galvanized pipe.  Just flatten the ends and drill a hole through each end.  Attach one end to the base of each forward lifeline stanchion with a shackle so that it can pivot down when the mast is raised.  Attach the forward end of the pipes to the end of the fore mainstay above the turnbuckle with a long bolt.  For mechanical advantage in lifting, I use the main sheet tackle attached from the end of the fore mainstay to the furling jib chainplate. 

[Snapdragon]

Here's a closeup picture of the attachment point at the stantion base.  I'm surprised that it doesn't chew up the deck, but so far not a scratch.  Just make sure that it is loose enough to self-align as it swivels, and that the pipes don't catch on anything on the way up or down.
Please note that I have installed a "gallows" on the stern to support the mast horizontally when down. 

My procedure is to :

First, slide the mast aft until the top tabernacle bolt can be installed through it for a swivel point.
 
Attach the aft and middle shroud lines to their respective chainplates.  They will tighten as you raise the mast.

Attach the mainsheet tackle to the lower end of the fore mainstay and the furling jib chainplate, making sure that the camcleat is at the bottom.   (This will keep the line in the jaws of the camcleat so that the mast will not fall if you loose your grip while lifting.)

Make sure that the aft mainstay is attached at both ends, and is free to rise with the mast.

You might want to have someone lift on the mast to get it started, and help guide it on the way up.  After it's about a third of the way up, the mast can be guided by pulling gently forward on either shroud line.

When the mast is vertical, install the bottom tabernacle bolt, connect the forward shroud lines and fore mainstay to their chainplates, and tension the standing rigging. 

[Snapdragon]

Yeah, I know it looks ugly, but this "gallows" contraption is my concession to old age.  It provides a support for the mast while trailering and makes raising the mast a one man job.  It also lets me lift out the outboard motor using a turning block and an electric winch mounted in the port cockpit locker. You can also see the small solar panel mounted on top.   It sure is handy to be able to lift heavy loads without the risk of injury.